Dani Alves

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Dani Alves

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 09, 10:55

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How Alves must be played:

Spoiler: show
Stats are all well and good, but without the proper tactics, Alves will never play like his real life self. This set was made to replicate alves constant runs in behind the defense, this is something that sidebacks.. just don't do in pes 2011. I'm not sure if they ever attacked quite like Alves did in earlier games.. I'm sure they didn't. But in pes 2011 at least, it's impossible for Alves to play like his real life counter part if hes only deployed in the SB or WB role. He just won't play like himself, period.

What this set is trying to achieve is to make Alves do this in PES 2011.

As I've said, he simply won't do this in pes 2011 as a SB or WB, even with his high aggression and Marauding card. He must be switched in and out of SMF and SB/WB with his current attack/resp/aggression/free roaming card/marauding card, this is how to replicate him. His position on the field is also extremely important.
Image
The white box with red lining is where he needs to be deployed as a SMF. That box represents the general area, the more advanced the better, the highest red line is where he should be positioned ideally, the closer to the sideline or the box is user preference I prefer him somewhere in the middle. The white/green box is the general area where he will be deployed as a SB... anywhere is fine for that, your choice. I have not included wingback positions.. as its just an example. You need to assign a second formation in the strategy menu, assign it to a short cut button. In this formation Dani Alves will play SMF with the free roaming card. In your normal formation he will be playing in his standard sideback role, switch between the two as the situation dictates.

Note: Playing in this role, he will be caught out position, this is guaranteed. He will still track back and defend, but it won't be enough most of the time. When Barcelona play like this, Busquets or abidal drop back and switch to a 3-4-3. You need to use a similar tactic to provide defensive cover on the right flank for alves.


Explanations:

Spoiler: show
Positions:
I started off with alves as a rightback, and noticed his reluctance to join the attack, after moving his position more and more advanced after hours of testing I started increasing his aggression value. Eventually going up to 95, still his play wasn't offensive enough, he hung back to far in the mid field... wouldn't join the attack and never made those penetrating runs he makes so often in reality. So then I started messing around with the sliders, after hours and hours of testing I decided.. he can not be replicated as a SB. But I suspected this, and then repeated the exact same process with the WB position, two or so days later I decided he still wasn't playing correctly... so moved him to WF. It was much, much better, but then I realised the card Free Roaming is not applicable to WF. So I then changed him to a SMF, and his positioning became much more realistic, he wouldn't be in the final third 24/7. But he would play quite advanced and usually spend his time in the opponents half. After a few hours of testing and changing attack/def/resp/aggr/men/giving cards and removing cards, he started to make runs pretty similar to the runs he makes in reality, with the right balance in frequency while still aiding to the defense and not playing to far advanced too often.



Attack:
Though alves is a great dribbler and a pretty all round solid player, for Barca he basically relies purely on his offensive positioning to aid the team, he is constantly running behind the defense in the final third. His acceleration allows him to quickly run past the last defender and get onto the end of a through ball, and due to his pace he usually has a good few feet on the defender to work from this position. This is basically barcelonas open the defense for free card, it happens time and time again, and theres little to nothing any defense can do about it. Dani alves picks up an extremely advanced position in the final third and is free to make cut back passes/crosses/one- twos etc. This is usually where barcelonas most dangerous moves come from, once alves gets in there... endless possibilities open up for Barcas offense. If you watch alves during a match, you will constantly see him in the final third waiting to run in behind defenders, the chance isn't always seen by the player in possession of course, so Alves is making these runs a lot more than you may notice, since your focus is probably on the player in possession. I have never seen a sideback attack with this much positional intelligence, ever. He has such great dribbling skills and speed on the ball, but for the team he forgoes this and realises that they have messi/iniesta/pedro for this.. and he will benefit the team better purely through offensive positioning. Considering how great he is at this I've decided to give him an 81 for attack. I know its completly above SB standards, but that is irrelevant. He is not a standard sideback, his positioning is far beyond that of most wingers, he relies purely on positioning to unlock the defense. I have no doubts on him deserving this value, standards or not, its what he deserves for his offensive positional play. The value I really want to give him is an 82... but no one will accept that. So for now I'll settle on 81.


Stamina:
Slight decrease. His stamina and fitness levels are unquestionable really, but anything over 96 really isn't needed I feel. He runs constantly, much more than any sideback I know.. and he continues on into the final minitues, but he doesn't track back 24/7 and doesn't cover THAT much ground to warrant anything over a 96.

BB:
No need for a drop. He has a very small stature and weights next to nothing, hes not overly strong with 82. And in reality hes an exceptionally strong player for his size.

Defense/response/aggression/mentality/attack/free roaming card:
His defensive positioning.. is not bad, far from it, its just that he plays such an advanced role hes really caught out of position a lot. As such he needs to rely on his speed and last ditch tackles to make up for his offensive nature. The strong point of his defensive game is his interception and dispossession game, hes really quite good at this and is pretty under rated here for some unknown reason. He needs this element to his play to compensate for the defensive positional weakness which comes from his attacking nature. Having said that, that is not the only reason for the increased response, the response helps his reaction time to xavi/iniestas through balls... helps him time his runs, I actually found him more realistic with a higher value. But that will never be accepted, so I'm settling on an 86. As far as aggression goes... for some reason in pes 2011... players who play on the side... just don't attack enough in comparison with older games. I feel you can never have enough aggression now, 92 may seem like a ridiculosly high value, but it is needed. There are many aspects which stop alves from attacking, his defense and mentality are at low values... but any lower would just be unrealistic, the high aggression works with these stats and helps counter his likeness to drop back and defend rather than attack. I may increase this value later, because even with this high aggression value in the SMF position he tends to hang back around the midfield more than he does in reality. The free roaming card is basically what allows him to attack like he does in reality, with this card his attacking frequency is much more like his real life self. The combination of SMF def/resp/agr/men/attack and the free roaming card all work in unison with each other, and I feel its very realistic for now. When playing in the SB/WB positions, his defensive positioning won't be solid, and due to his high aggression he will still attack quite a lot.. just like in reality, the mentality is a big drop from his PSD set and I feel this works much, much better. All of these stats work in tandem with each other to replicate his SB and SMF roles.


DA/DS/AGI:
Due to his role in barcelona, you don't really get to see much of just how good a dribbler alves is, he knows well they have Messi/iniesta/villa/pedro for that, so he doesn't need to do it. But you do see it on the odd occasion, heres a small example . Its much more common to see him dribbling like this in the national team than for barcelona, for the reasons I started. He demonstrates a DA far beyond the average SB, nice close control in combination with a pretty high DS. His dribbling at speeds is pretty impressive, as is the control he maintains at these speeds. So I've decided to give him an 84 for DA.. nothing crazy, I feel it works quite well with his DS and agility. As for his agility... he really is an agile player, his body turns are always quick and precise... the original value I wanted was an 88. However, after testing I found agi to somewhat increase the speed a player actually runs... and Alves was running the perfect speed already, so I decreased it to 86, I feel this is enough to replicate him.


TS/ACC/DS:
Though these values may seem like a simple swap from psds values, I assure you they are not. The numbers in my set are the results of a few hours of testing multiple values. Having originally started with konamis default set and worked my way down. At times I've felt hes not that fast, but has a really nice burst of pace... looks really impressive at times. So I wanted to go with an 84 TS/87 ACC. But after watching a few matches of him over the weeks.. I decided he was deserving of an 86. You usually see him tear defense apart due to his short but extremely fast runs down the final third, and due to their short nature his true TS is not demonstrated that much. But you can see it on occasion and I feel 86 is the perfect value for him. In reality you can see how quickly he can catch up with sidebacks wingers after being caught out of position, as well as see how fast he runs past the last defender from a half midfield position. ACC being 87 may seem a little high, but it feels right in game, the speed he moves off the mark and the time it takes him to catch up with his defenders feels just right to me.

Passing:
Alves passing is pretty decent for a sideback, usually gets a very large amount of assits a year. 15 so far this year, 15 last year,
Thats not going to influence how I rate him though.


LPA/LPS:
Well....he is absolutely awful at crossing. His accuracy is just... non existent at times, its like he doesn't even know what hes doing. He trys these slow paced lofted balls... that just go completely off target... 76 may seem like a really low value.. its actually generous. He can find his mark with long passes far too easily with his current lpa+ teamwork value. I actually want to go a little lower, but I guess 76 will do. I don't even need to explain this value, anyone who watches alves knows he can't cross for shit. The lps was far to high at 87, its true he can put a lot of pace on it when he wants to. But he usually chooses not to and when he does.. its not an 87 value, 84 is more than enough.


SPA/SPS:
This is a weird one, hes an extremely safe passer for a sideback, and sometimes can make some really nice through balls.. that you wouldn't expect to see from a sideback. That being said, I want to rate him pretty high, he deserves it, but too high becomes unrealistic for what he display in reality. I went with a 77 originally, but feel its under rating him, there definitely should be a gap between him and most sidebacks.. so I've settled on an 78 for SPA.. SPS... this was something I originally wanted to put at an 80. When he needs to he can make nicely weighted passes over a good distance. But in game watching AI vs AI.. with a value of 79, Alves kept playing further passes than he should, his real life self would be making a pass to the man 5m's away from him, in game he was making passes to the man 15-20ms away from him. I decreased it to a 77 value to stop him doing this. I feel it works great with his SPA. In reality he usually does play very light passes that don't travel more than a few feet, but he can put enough pace on them when he needs to..with 77 and the passing power bar in pes 2011 it works great like this. The ai makes the type of passes he would make in reality, and stopped passing over distances look he was originally with the 79 value.

SA/ST/SP:
I keep hearing people say how bad he is at shooting at how he needs a massive downgrade, he doesn't...only a slight downgrade. He has a huge SP (87, perfect for him imo) with a low SA+ST, which means his shots extremely hard to control and will often times be completely inaccurate.

Fka/Curling:
His freekick accuracy is completly over rated. He is rarely accurate, usually blasts them completly over. When he goes for placment he uses minimal curl... I think 83 Curl may be slightly too much, but it will do for now. FKA can come down to 77, more than enough imo.

Jump:Hes decent in the air, gets pretty good height and does better than you would expect for a man of his size in aerial duels. 81 for jump.


Teamwork:
Admittedly, it was me who called out his teamwork value on PSD for being over-rated, I felt it was. But after really studying him for a few months and testing values in game.. I can't make the same claim. Teamwork of 85 may seem over rated, but its not. He definitely should be the global leader for teamwork for SB's. His understanding with his teammates is great, he knows how they move, how to move with them, can read them all brilliantly, especially with their passing intentions. This is from the Zonalmarking article above.
Image See that pass received value? Thats a pretty impressive record, and testament to how good his ability to read his team mates passes is. Its especially impressive when you consider Xavi is often times playing him passes from 30 yards away into space, but he always understand the intention and its one of the the aspects that makes him so dangerous in the final third. Now as for his link up play... Needless to say hes quite good at this too. Though usually you will find him playing simple one twos in the final third, hes more than capable of making brilliant moves with his team mates. Just look at that vid, his understanding with messi is incredible, and look at his positioning too, that goal could easily have been ruined by poor positioning on hiis part, but he did everything flawlessly. 85 teamwork is more than justified. I feel hes too individual in game with 85 as is... he may possibly need higher to better replicate his likeliness to pass rather than dribble. He really is selfless at times


Removed Darting Run:
This card made him dribble on the ball more than he should.. I thought this card was an off the ball card, but apparently not, he kept trying to beat players with it, which was really taking away from the realism of the set.. so I took it away.


Removed Early Cross:
He was attempting this too often with the card, so I removed it. Its more important for him to make short passes in the final third than crosses. He still makes crosses without this card, and yes early ones too, but the frequency with the card is too much imo.

Free Roaming:
This card is absolutely essential to his SMF role, I've explained already why its there.

ATTACK / DEFENCE AWARENESS: S/OFF:
I know super offensive may seem like overkill and he shouldn't have it cause he does defend. Well, this is the most realistic and I would insist on him having it as the set was built around it. Any changes to this and you'll probably find him defending more than he should and not being caught out of position enough.

I'm still trying to find out how to make him more involved in build up play in the final third, but its hard to do for the AI... it's basically completely in competent.


Credits to jurgens ;)

Last edited by Markulur on 2009 Sep 15, 19:00, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby vinnie » 2012 Apr 29, 20:25

he doesn't really cross though unless it's a fast break or barca needs a goal late in the game.

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby Korinov » 2012 May 01, 13:19

vinnie wrote:he doesn't really cross though unless it's a fast break or barca needs a goal late in the game.


Yes, he does. In fact, he's the player with most cross attempts in the whole spanish league if I'm not mistaken.

I'd say a decrease in LPA is in order, but also adding Early Cross.

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby čale » 2012 May 01, 13:55

i'd have to disagree on a drop in LPA, he might look wasteful on the first glance but statistics say otherwise (not a quite strong argument i know, but still they mean something), 2641/3083 (SPA) = 86,6% pass success ratio, and for LPA it's 155/338 = 45,86%. He's not rated by KONAMI @ 87/89 for LPA/S for no reason.

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby Kerry » 2012 May 01, 14:34

At times he isn't wasteful, the problem is there's no good target-man strikers to aim at in the final 3rd. Defenders mostly boss the shorties in the area then clear the cross, not always Dani's fault.

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby boss aman7 » 2012 May 05, 20:20

SA 72 is disapointing for a player like DANI ALVES!!!SA 80 immediately :D

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby čale » 2012 May 06, 10:10

and the reason for that is......??

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby boss aman7 » 2012 May 06, 12:31

while watching him play, i saw that he scores amazing goals every time he shots and he makes them look so simple.if you want watch some videos about him and then tell me why he deserves such a great number in SA! :mrgreen:

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby Korinov » 2012 May 06, 13:18

boss aman7 wrote:while watching him play, i saw that he scores amazing goals every time he shots and he makes them look so simple.if you want watch some videos about him and then tell me why he deserves such a great number in SA! :mrgreen:


Watching videos on youtube doesn't mean to watch someone play. "He scores amazing goals every time he shots"... what? He's usually scored between 3 and 5 goals per season, and if you had really watched him play you'd know he actually shoots more, quite a lot more.

Added Early Cross BTW.

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby jurgens » 2012 May 06, 13:39

1 in 5 of his shots go on target. 2 in 50 resulted in goals

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby PanteraIFD » 2012 Jun 18, 18:18


Look this assists:
0:30, 1:45, 2:28, 2:56, 3:09, 3:36

He deserves better values fot LPA/LPS, for me he is something like 83/88

Football is very simple: who has the ball attacks, who doesn't have defends.
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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby victorjbm » 2012 Jul 16, 17:32

defnitively alves teamwork is higher, and its between 86 - 90, his teamwork with messi is excelent, and with xavi too...

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby victorjbm » 2012 Jul 16, 17:34

PanteraIFD wrote:
Look this assists:
0:30, 1:45, 2:28, 2:56, 3:09, 3:36

He deserves better values fot LPA/LPS, for me he is something like 83/88



im so agree with you, even should be higher than you say...

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby Fixer » 2012 Jul 16, 17:35

One does not simply rate a player with a 4 minutes video. Specially If the name says It clearly : 'BEST of Dani Alves'

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby the sloth » 2012 Aug 03, 18:26

Any thoughts about adding the Passer Card to him?

He ended this past season with the 2nd most assists at Barca behind Messi and according to whoscored.com, ended up with the 3rd most key passes at Barca (higher than everyone except Messi and Xavi, and 18th overall in La Liga).

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby Jez » 2012 Aug 03, 19:45

So, I only ever really watch Barcelona in Europe so this is more of a query than anything else, but why does the most ridiculously offensive fullback of recent times not have a red Aggression? I mean, people go as far to say that you should play him as a Side Midfielder or Wing Forward in PES. If you're going to keep him as a registered fullback, and play him in game as a fullback, wouldn't a red aggression make sense? I mean personally I can't see why he doesn't have it already, every time I see him he's pretty much camped in the opposition half and has he ever not joined in on an attack?

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby Mr. Evans » 2012 Aug 07, 13:13

I have to say that's a good point.

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby Korinov » 2012 Aug 07, 14:15

I do not disagree as well... but I also suppose it won't really matter in less than two months (he'll be 3/3 or 3/2 by then).

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby blaugrana » 2012 Aug 08, 23:19

Alves must be the one who has and carries the ball most time of all players per game. He moves all the time and always makes him available for a pass and that isn't quite represented with current TW value imo. Then again he does make many bad decisions with the ball, don't know if thats represented in TW for sidebacks.. If so I apologize. :oops:

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby ballmer » 2012 Aug 09, 00:07

He only really moves up and down the touchline though to support though. Konami give him 81 and I think bitz made a set with 70-something, in order to keep him confined to the touchline, rather than drifting infield. With a high RES for an SB, low TW shouldn't be a problem. But I've always been uncomfortable commenting on TW values for different positions.

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Re: Dani ALVES

Postby Jez » 2012 Aug 12, 15:15

Korinov wrote:I do not disagree as well... but I also suppose it won't really matter in less than two months (he'll be 3/3 or 3/2 by then).


So we're just gonna stop rating Aggression now?

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