Cesc Fàbregas

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Cesc Fàbregas

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 09, 10:54

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby lfc 4 eva » 2009 Feb 24, 18:16

deity86 wrote:Just a small thing.. but does he really need - Side: R? Seeing as he's just got CM as a position does it make too much difference?

Doesn't make any difference cos ingame you cant select sides unless you have a side poition ie: sb, wb, smf or wf

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Phil » 2009 Mar 01, 21:40

does anyone else think his passing ability is massively underrated here, maybe its just me

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby deity86 » 2009 Mar 01, 22:13

Hmm.. not too sure. When you say massively underrated by how much do you mean? Take into account he's got both the Playmaking and Passing stars which also contribute alot. Yes he's a top passer but from the end of last season and at times this season he was mis-placing quite a few more passes than usual. I still feel he can make another step up with his passing in the years to come and be truly world class, but I just think he's there yet.

Not a great time for suggestions when someone's out injured but.. I need to ask about his Top Speed. I know he's not the quickest player you'll ever see, far from it :lol: but a 78 puts him on the same level as Gary Neville and Emanuel Pogatetz for example. I remember before he got injured thinking that he'd slightly improved in this area, I'm not going to suggest anything at the moment but it might be something to look out for when he comes back, or better yet next season. Any thoughts?

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Ulises » 2009 Mar 23, 13:37

I don't think that his passing abilities are massively underrated, well i think that his short pass abilities could go up one or two points, he is IMO one of the 3 best passers with xavi and pirlo, and one step over alonso (better efficacy but he doesn't perform difficult passes, i mean he doesn't take risks).

And i want to remember this:

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 Mar 23, 15:00

What more do you want? He has the 2 passing stars and when you use him in game he's tremendously destructive. ...Have you even used these stats!?? :shock:

Edit - Agree to agility.

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby jmg721 » 2009 Mar 23, 15:14

This is how his passing compares to the top passing Serie A players:
Short Pass Accuracy: 93(Pirlo)/92(Pizarro)/91(Cesc)/91(Ronaldinho)/90(Totti)/89(Kaka)/88(Liverani)/87(Figo)/86(D'Agostino)/85(Corini)/85(Nedved)/85(Del Piero)/85(Ledesma)/85(Montolivo)/84(Beckham)/84(De Rossi)/84(Palombo)/81(Rosina)

Short Pass Speed: 91(Pirlo)/90(Beckham)/89(Kaka)/88(Cesc)/87(Pizarro)/86(De Rossi)/85(Nedved)/85(Totti)/84(D'Agostino)/83(Liverani)/83(Montolivo)/83(Corini)/82(Figo)/82(Ronaldinho)/82(Rosina)/82(Palombo)/81(Ledesma)/79(Del Piero)

Long Pass Acc.: 98(Pirlo)/97(Beckham)/94(Figo)/93(Ronaldinho)/90(Pizarro)/90(Liverani)/89(Totti)/89(Cesc)/88(Corini)/87(Del Piero)/87(D'Agostino)/86(Palombo)/85(Nedved)/84(Montolivo)/84(Ledesma)/82(Kaka)/82(De Rossi)/80(Rosina)

Long Pass Speed: 95(Beckham)/88(Totti)/87(Pirlo)/87(Ronaldinho)/86(Nedved)/86(Pizarro)/86(Cesc)/85(Corini)/84(Liverani)/84(Figo)/83(Kaka)/82(Del Piero)/82(D'Agostino)/81(Ledesma)/81(De Rossi)/81(Palombo)/81(Rosina)/81(Montolivo)

I'd say he seems to fit in very favorable.

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Ulises » 2009 Mar 23, 15:17

Well yes, he is really good ingame as it is in real life. But i am just suggesting 1 or 2 points more in SPA. And i suggest this because of a fair comparation with similar players like pirlo or xavi, whose have a gap in short pass accuracy with fabregas in the database, which i think doesn't exist in real life. Or comparing with alonso who is just 1 point under fabregas.


And about the "passing" star you mentioned, you are right that the star *passing affects passing skill, but this star only affects the psses performed in the las meters of the pitch (i mean near the opposite box). And *playmaking, as it was explained maaany times here, is not directly related with passing skill, in contrary is more related with liking with mates (coordinated runs to recive the ball of the nearby teammates, better at recibing the ball), so this star is more related with TW.

Xavi:
Short Pass Accuracy: 96
Short Pass Speed: 94
Long Pass Accuracy: 90
Long Pass Speed: 88

Pirlo:
Short Pass Accuracy: 93
Short Pass Speed: 91
Long Pass Accuracy: 98
Long Pass Speed: 87

Alonso:
Short Pass Accuracy: 90
Short Pass Speed: 90
Long Pass Acc.: 92
Long Pass Speed: 89


IMO, ronaldinho, pizarro and totti should get lower SPA values, IMO it should be a gap between xavi, pirlo, fabregas and those players, they are not at the same level.

Attending on this stats i think that SPA could be raised 1 point, or even 2 on par with pirlo.

Last edited by Ulises on 2009 Mar 23, 15:26, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby deity86 » 2009 Mar 23, 15:25

Ulises wrote: Or comparing with alonso who is more accurate than fabregas in the database, and i don't think that he is in real life.

On this database Fabregas has a better SPA than Xabi, and Xabi has better LPA than Cesc which I think is reflective of real life to be honest.

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Ulises » 2009 Mar 23, 15:27

deity86 wrote:
Ulises wrote: Or comparing with alonso who is more accurate than fabregas in the database, and i don't think that he is in real life.

On this database Fabregas has a better SPA than Xabi, and Xabi has better LPA than Cesc which I think is reflective of real life to be honest.



True and edited.

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby jmg721 » 2009 Mar 23, 16:33

Ulises wrote:IMO, ronaldinho, pizarro and totti should get lower SPA values, IMO it should be a gap between xavi, pirlo, fabregas and those players, they are not at the same level.

Attending on this stats i think that SPA could be raised 1 point, or even 2 on par with pirlo.
I think you are avoiding SPS a little bit.

You were saying his SPassing is much better than Pizarro, Ronaldinho & Totti.

Pizarro(+1SPA, -1SPS)...that would put them basically on par w. eachother. So that is a reasonable arguement for lowering Pizarro or raising Fabregas.

Ronaldinho(Same SPA, -6SPS)...this make Cesc much better of a short passer already than Dinho.

Totti(-1SPA, -3SPS)...IMO I might say Totti is better than both Pizarro & Dinho in Short Passing.

If you really think things need to be changed. I think it would be Pizarro moving down a bit, and maybe a very slight improvement to cesc. If you look at who you are comparing him too. I don't think he is a better Short Passer than Xavi or Pirlo. I don't have many thoughts on Xabi's SPassing.

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Vandeach » 2009 Mar 23, 16:51

Woah I've always thought Ronaldinho's passing has been a bit overrated and I don't think its fair that he's on par with Fabregas(I'm talking about accuracy here not power) Now I don't watch Roma enough to be able to judge Totti and Pizarro that accurately so correct me if I'm wrong but I think this looks fair concerning SPA

95: Xavi

93: Pirlo

92: Fabregas

91: Pizarro

90: Xabi Alonso, Totti(possibly 91 but contrary to Jason I think Pizarro tries more adventorous passes than Totti but he probably watches Roma more than me so if he still thinks Totti is better I wouldn't argue)

89: Ronaldinho

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Ulises » 2009 Mar 23, 16:58

Well i am just talking about ACCURACY, i am not talking about SPS, cause SPS doesn't make a player passes more accurate, doesn't it mate?¿ I think that you shouldn't mess up both stats. Anyway I agree with the current short pass speed value... (Vandeach has understaded my point)

Well just centering discussion on the passing ACCURACY, i think that fabregas is more accurate passer than ronaldinho, totti and pizarro, and of course under xavi and on par or as much 1 point under pirlo (pirlo puts more power and peforms faster passer, wich is related with SPS, and where i agree with you that he should be over fabregas).

So, where is the problem?¿ You agree that fabregas is less accurate passer than ronaldinho, totti and pizzaro?¿


I can agree with Vandeach ladder, but i would put fabregas at the same SPA tha pirlo, cause IMO what make pirlo better short passer than fabregas is his SPS, cause pirlo can peform faster passes and rarely misspowers a pass.

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 Mar 23, 17:46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHiv3JngHoU&fmt=18 Totti is the best passer you even mentioned. :D

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Ulises » 2009 Mar 23, 21:22

LOL, totti is a great passer, yes, but the video shows great first touches passes, wich are more due to a great technique (wich improove first touches) than SPA, i have some videos of fabregas as well. But anyway if totti at his 34 year old only could sum that great passes... Fabregas just with 21 years old has done this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovJmeY3dnDM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a23ifQuX ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uOX73GGSvo&NR=1

No doubt to me that fabregas is better than totti...

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 Mar 23, 21:27

Fabregas is a wonderful, wonderful passer of the ball. Make absolutely no mistake. I have seen plenty of him over the years. ;) I don't need to be reminded.

...But Totti's vision and execution is.. :o he weights everything brilliantly. Maybe he is 34 now, but he still showed me last year that he was still wonderful at passing. I wasn't saying he should be rated above Cesc etc, but my case was simply that he didn't need to go down.

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Ulises » 2009 Mar 23, 21:38

Alcohomicide wrote:Fabregas is a wonderful, wonderful passer of the ball. Make absolutely no mistake. I have seen plenty of him over the years. ;) I don't need to be reminded.

...But Totti's vision and execution is.. :o he weights everything brilliantly. Maybe he is 34 now, but he still showed me last year that he was still wonderful at passing. I wasn't saying he should be rated above Cesc etc, but my case was simply that he didn't need to go down.


I also didn't want to lower totti... i have repeated many times that i only suggested to raise 1 or 2 points fabregas SPA, only that... And i don't think that this is a silly suggestion cause he is one of the best passers at the moment.

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 Mar 23, 21:42

He's the best in the league already... I could argue a few players should be upped if he is. Otherwise there is an unfair gap. He has both stars, remember.

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Ulises » 2009 Mar 23, 21:53

About the stars, i explained to you before...


Ulises wrote:And about the "passing" star you mentioned, you are right that the star *passing affects passing skill, but this star only affects the psses performed in the las meters of the pitch (i mean near the opposite box). And *playmaking, as it was explained maaany times here, is not directly related with passing skill, in contrary is more related with liking with mates (coordinated runs to recive the ball of the nearby teammates, better at recibing the ball), so this star is more related with TW.


Anyway i can live with SPA 91...

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Rfuna » 2009 Mar 23, 22:21

Ulises wrote:No doubt to me that fabregas is better than totti...
:o
Alcohomicide wrote:But Totti's vision and execution is.. he weights everything brilliantly
I'm with you on that one Alcohomicide. great videos by the way on both players. It's amazing theat Fabregas is still only 21. But I'm a serie a fan so I'm definately leaning towards Totti as a better passer. Particulary SPS, IMO players like Totti and Inesta are better at threading passess through a maze of defenders where as Fabregas is better at spreading the play into wider, more open areas of the field. This is evident when you consider the defensive nature of italian football. But I realize that most teams sit back and defend against Arsenal in the premiership so Fabregas faces something similar. IMO, Fabregas deserves lower SPS, perhaps 86, while players like Inesta and Totti ought to be at around 87/88? Just my opinion, don't hate me for it :D

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Re: Cesc FABREGAS

Postby Ulises » 2009 Mar 23, 22:36

Rfuna wrote:
Ulises wrote:No doubt to me that fabregas is better than totti...
:o
Alcohomicide wrote:But Totti's vision and execution is.. he weights everything brilliantly
I'm with you on that one Alcohomicide. great videos by the way on both players. It's amazing theat Fabregas is still only 21. But I'm a serie a fan so I'm definately leaning towards Totti as a better passer. Particulary SPS, IMO players like Totti and Inesta are better at threading passess through a maze of defenders where as Fabregas is better at spreading the play into wider, more open areas of the field. This is evident when you consider the defensive nature of italian football. But I realize that most teams sit back and defend against Arsenal in the premiership so Fabregas faces something similar. IMO, Fabregas deserves lower SPS, perhaps 86, while players like Inesta and Totti ought to be at around 87/88? Just my opinion, don't hate me for it :D


I meant than fabregas is more accurate passer....

i understand your point but here we unfortunatly we are not discussing about Shor Pass Speed, or if italian football is more defensive or fabregas playstyle, we are discussing about if fabregas deserves or not higher value of Shor Pass Accuracy. And i am not only basing my argument in premierships matches, i base on champions league matches and NT matches, where IMO fabregas showed he is one of the best passers.

Anyway i agree with you that totti deserves higher value for SPS than fabregas, but i don't understand how can you say that totti deserves 87/88 and fabregas 86, in this case no player would get an orange value in your ladder, and even less a red value...

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