Pernambucano Juninho | 2002-2005

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Pernambucano Juninho | 2002-2005

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 12, 19:44

Club: Olympique Lyonnais



INFO:

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In 2001, Juninho moved abroad to play for French club Olympique Lyonnais. Before his arrival at Lyon, the club had never won the French Ligue 1 championship. In his first year at the club, the championship was secured, and it was subsequently won seven seasons in a row. At Lyon, Juninho made himself especially noted for his accurate, powerful and varied set pieces.

Having been regarded as one of the world's greatest free kick takers of the present day and possibly one of the greatest of all time, in addition, he is an effective passer, having provided many assists, and his leadership abilities prompted Lyon manager Gérard Houllier to name him team captain.

On 26 May 2009, Juninho announced that he would leave Lyon at the end of the season as a free agent. Lyon chairman Jean-Michel Aulas explained to the media that the club and Juninho agreed to cancel the last year of his contract. During the press conference, Juninho was sitting next to Aulas and left the press conference without saying a word.

VIDEOS:

Spoiler: show



ADDITIONAL LINKS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juninho_Pernambucano

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/st ... 30&cc=5739

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby julgui » 2011 Jan 09, 18:01

Brezza, do not expect that nrby says you can update?

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby Vickingo » 2011 Aug 22, 05:20

Jurgens/Albo/Epsi, someone has opinions about this set? I'm very interested in read your opinions about changes/tweaks.

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby Fantasista » 2011 Aug 30, 08:07

And what about me!? I have my opinion too! :twisted:
Back to stats they need slight changes in some areas:
-a bit higer attack, like 82, maybe even higher when we consider Xavi on 83
-lower defense, I'm not sure about exact number but 66 is extremely high value(higher than lots classy of sb/wb) for am I don't think he deserve it. He wasn't THAT great tackler/marker etc.
-lower spa and maybe sps. Both in orange of course, but 90/91 for instance would fit him better. I would like too see other opinions since again I'm not 100% sure about precise stats
-I'm not sure if he deserve such a high curling, only one point behind Beckham(even red).His main attribute in free kicks was their precision. He was amazingly swerving the ball of course but not on 98 level IMO
-higher mentality. He was absolute leader of Lyon, the main architect of titles. He was a star, but he didn't behave like on of them. He was working very hard and very often saved his team from adverse score(usually by unsavable free kick)

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby Brezza » 2011 Sep 02, 22:50

Agree with your suggestions and tweaked slightly. What value of ment would you give him?

Not sure about curling, he wont replicate the same curl as Becks put on his free kicks as his specific free kick style wont allow him to do that. Curling also effects dip and he was a master of being able to dip the ball with the right amount of precision and power from any angle and distance possible. Some of his deep passes and crosses also had that similar curling dipping effect like Beckham as well

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby Fantasista » 2011 Sep 03, 14:27

Looks very well right now ;). Mentality could go up to 84 but nothing more.
As I said he could curl like a beast but he wasn't one of the best in the history in that aspect. To me he's 96 max, but I'd go for 95, a bit lower, but still in red(I guess we all agree that he deserves god region).

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby ingus » 2011 Sep 03, 23:05

Attack is too high. Xavi has that value to help him with playing killer balls. The differnce between xavi and Juninho in this area is huge. As juninho wasn't really a final ball player, more of a dribbler/teamwork build up player. Not only that but if you talk about positiong, xavi is much better. Hes really a master of staying unmarked anywhere on the pitch, you can easily see many playmakers man marked and being taken out of the game (sneijder vs busquests?) but when can you say xavi was marked out of the game? :lol: Old value of 80 was more than enough for Juninho.

Passing old value was better. Juninho was and is just flawless technically, so naturally so were his short passes. He wasn't really a deep ball passer like xavi/iniesta/cesc, he usually stuck to dribble pass and go, rather than penetrating deep passes. But when the need came (sideback running past last defender) he could make very difficult long passes. And his general passing from just touch and go, was very fast thinking, fast acting passes. And never really losing any accuracy because of the minimal amount of time allowed while making the pass nor the distance or difficulty. Wasn't a complex short passer, but was pretty flawless in his execution regardless of the situation. I've had him at a 92 forever, and it's what I'd like to see him at here.

As for his SPS... this is a hard one. Maybe it's because it's been years and I'm making a mistake... but Juninho was mainly a short distance short passer, and his regular passes didn't have all that much speed. Problem is that when he needed to put any distance on them that was needed, he could, but from my recollection that was rare. I'd like to take him really down so there is a big gap between him and players who frequently passed from deep like xavi/laudrup. So he will still be amazingly accurate in his all round passing game, but not as effective at killer balls as xavi/iniesta. I'd go with something like 92 spa with 87/88 sps. Thats enough sps for him to hit the long passes when he needs to, but limits his overall effectiveness.

lpa: His long passing I've always felt he is one of the best ever in this regard. I don't remeber anyone ever being so dangerous from anywhere on the pitch because of freekick delivery. Lyon could get a freekick from the halfway line, and juninhos delivery into the box would be 100% perfect and could always create a goal scoring chance due to this. The accuracy on his freekick delivery is just... phenomenal. His freekicks must have resulted in well over a 100 goals, not from goals but from putting the ball into a danger area, may not have been a direct assits, but would have created the goal regardless. His open play long passes were flawless aswell. His wing crosses would be beckham-esque, for both accuracy and curl. He played as a side mid fielder a few times for lyon, that was probably the reason why. I rate him at 94 personally, but could easily be a 95. Speed is just too high aswell. I understand fully why he has this but.. I'd go with something between 88-90. His long passes were fast, no doubht. But they were more based on pure accuracy and curl/swerve dip. The difference between him and Gerrard should be much higher. I mean gerrard really just blats the ball as hard as he can, juninho didn't.


def: Pretty bad tackler, and reckless quite frequently :lol: But he defend a lot when he needed too, as he was the leader and took responsibility. I'd go with 63/64. His response defiantly needs to come down to a low green value.

Dunno about that SP of 92 either. He didn't really blast them that hard.. but.. he could score from anywhere because of the power he could put on them, but too much will negate from dip/curl. Maybe 92 is fine.. I need to test this.

curl is absoultly 98 without doubhts.

mentality is fine at 82.

teamwork.. I don't think he needs this value, 89 or so would be better.

era is long too. Which means he should have varying values. def lower in earlier days, teamwork higher in later day. If were considering his first years, which are in this set, he needs trickster. He was more consrvative in his later years and relied mainly on close control, but would still pull of the occasional scissor and inside bounce. Classic 10 needs to go without t doubts, wasn't like this at all.

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby cescjiang » 2011 Sep 04, 00:28

About ATT and Classic No.10
I wonder if it is because of the classic No.10, he rarely comes near the box when joining attack even with such a high ATT and Agg
Same doubt about SP, does Juninho also need a downgrade in his SP due to the similar reason discussed in the Pirlo thread?

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby Brezza » 2011 Sep 06, 19:13

Just keeping you on your toes Jurgens ;) that all sounds good . the only concerns I had with SPA was putting him on the same level as Totti and 'Dinho don't you rate them slightly higher though?

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby TheSinisterViper » 2011 Sep 06, 19:28

Look at the swerve and dip of this knuckle free kick! Look at the replay at the end.



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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby ingus » 2011 Sep 09, 11:35

Brezza wrote:Just keeping you on your toes Jurgens ;) that all sounds good . the only concerns I had with SPA was putting him on the same level as Totti and 'Dinho don't you rate them slightly higher though?


Tottis on 93 and I'd say thats fine. His passing didn't impress me so much by how accurate they were... but more so.. how the hell did he see that? Just genuis passes, I'd say hes fine at 92/93. I'd rate dinho 94/95. And juninho 92 with less sps than both.

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby Fantasista » 2011 Sep 09, 11:52

For now I just wanna to say I agree with sp downgrade(and sth about swevre). He wasn't blasting so hard like CR for instance. It was all aboust immense precision with his free kicks(and curling, but mostly precision). So sp 89/90 and for curling after watching some more vids I sugg 97(at first was thinking about 95-96 but It would be too low).

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby ingus » 2011 Sep 14, 13:26

Updated.

His freekick style is really annoying, it doesn't get enough vertical lift... and the high SP makes it even worse. I can challenge the keeper 85% with figo from 22 ish metres.. maybe 40% with juninho. Still he was probably the most consistently dangerous range freekick taker of all time. 36m is what I've been testing mostly and I'd say his freekick works perfectly from out there with sp @89. The curl 98 allows for some huge dip, and it's very realistic.

Maybe he might need slightly higher SP. Need to test this further and hear more opinions on it.

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby Korinov » 2012 Jul 04, 15:47

This could use some new standards. Jurgens?

I remember Konami made him much more slow and unagile around PES 6 and the such. I think they had also given him green SPS, though don't really ask me why.

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby Luizinho94 » 2012 Jul 11, 16:44

Can someone make a set for his best years at Vasco? I think this Era could be 1996-2000.

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby yashioman » 2012 Jul 27, 17:36

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z8LZtUyQaY i think this should be added to the video links. I am not very educated at doing that myself on the database. Also his attack should stay at 85 as in PES6 for this 2002-2005 timespan.

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby milanillo » 2012 Aug 25, 04:56

I saw the last game for Vasco against Flamingo . He was running all of the match . You can t feel that he is 38 years old . And he was faster than what you gave him in this set . So however he was younger by may 10 years . I think he can get some points in TS and ACC and STA . And his RES can be improved .

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby ingus » 2012 Sep 09, 01:49

Somebody please makes some vs youtube match comps for him so I can make a good set :x :x :x

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby Adrien » 2012 Sep 13, 18:55

Like I already disccused with you I can watch all games of Juninho with Lyon in the TV channel of Lyon. It's impossible to download the video and also impossible to upload it in youtube. If you want I can work on him and trying to make a set for him. I was working on a Olympique Lyonnais classic 2001-2007 also I have to watch Lyon and Juninho. So I can help you.

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Re: Pernambucano JUNINHO | 2002-2005

Postby Adrien » 2012 Dec 24, 10:39

I noticed some tweaks by watching some old Lyon games (as I'm working on Lyon 2002-2008). He's definitely much slower with and without the ball. I'd go for 74 Acc and 77 DS.

He also always acting back on the turf waiting for space made by his partner, his resp can go down to 72 and agression to 78.

I think his attack can go up to a 84 too, he has a great vision and his movements are pure class, I can't see him under Pastore. He's SPS are slow too, he can put a bit of speed on it when he wants but it can be very slow too.

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Re: Pernambucano Juninho | 2002-2005

Postby Adrien » 2013 Jun 05, 09:18



They have eyes but cannot see; they have ears, but cannot hear; they have tongues, but cannot speak. They are like cattle.
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