Lionel Messi | 2005-06 | 08-10 | 10-11 | 11-12 | 13-14 | 14-15

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Lionel Messi | 2005-06 | 08-10 | 10-11 | 11-12 | 13-14 | 14-15

Postby PES Stats Database » 2009 Jul 02, 14:15

2005-2006

Nickname: Pulga

Club: FC Barcelona


Growth Type: Early/Lasting

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2008-2010

Nickname: "La Pulga" ("The Flea")

Club: FC Barcelona


Growth Type: Early/Lasting

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2010-2011
Nickname: "La Pulga" ("The Flea")

Club: FC Barcelona


Growth Type: Early/Lasting

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


2011-2012

Nickname: "La Pulga" ("The Flea")

Club: FC Barcelona


Growth Type: Early/Lasting

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


2013-2014

Nickname: "La Pulga" ("The Flea")

Club: FC Barcelona


Growth Type: Early/Lasting

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


2014-2015

Nickname: "La Pulga" ("The Flea")

Club: FC Barcelona


Growth Type: Early/Lasting

Last edited by vinnie on 2014 Jul 17, 00:21, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2009-2011 & 2005-2006

Postby Mwakka » 2011 Oct 11, 21:55

It may be a few points of difference but points don't mean everything. These points change his gameplay dramatically. Still, I personally think averaging the stats from both eras as complete bs. "Oh, Messi deserved an 82 back in 08 and he deserves an 88 now. So let's put those two eras into one set and give him 86 spa." This makes no sense. The set we have now... isn't Messi. He's between the Messi we saw in the past, and the Messi we see now. The Messi represented by the set we have now never existed. Messi's transformation from a dribbling wizard to a complete playmaker who even drops back to support the midfield was... unexpected. No one ever predicted it and no one saw it coming. In one season's time, he changed his playstyle, his dribbling, his positioning, his passing, his ways of scoring and I can list many many more. I suggest we make a Messi set that defines him from 08-10 and leave the current day Messi out of this thread. What we need to add is the Messi that equaled the La Liga scoring record of (the real) Ronaldo and the Messi that helped Barcelona win the treble. Not the Messi that we see play today. I can't see why he would even be on here.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2009-2011 & 2005-2006

Postby jurgens » 2011 Oct 11, 22:18

The messi in the first post never existed? His passing was so damn good in in 09/10.. this isn't a combination of what he deserved... or averaging his values? He fully deserved an 86 for his 09/10 season. His transformation into this playmaker really happend at the run up to the world cup as his role in argentina was very differnt, he has the TW value back then for his work with argentina, not barcelona... he started showing much more of this style In his 10/11 season, he was passing more and dropping back much more, so his passing was more noticeable, hes trying the diffuclt ball much more often nowadays so its easier to see just how good he us.. truth is.. hes pushing a 90 reguarly these days. Slight changes are needed for each year, as hes changing every year. We can't make a set that defines 2008-2010, as his 2009/2010 season was a differnt player than his 2008/2009 season.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2009-2011 & 2005-2006

Postby Mwakka » 2011 Oct 12, 00:14

By 2010, I mean before WC. I'm trying to emphasize the difference between the Messi of from seasons 08/09 and 09/10. Messi was much more attack minded during those 2 seasons. He went for goals a lot. He constantly dribbled to the opponent area. But the Messi from 10/11 and this season is different. Ever since the WC, Messi has been much more conservative. He still dribbles but he doesn't dribble as much. During the 10/11 season, there were games where Messi didn't even want to go forward. He stayed back, opened up the space for Villa and Pedro and supported Xavi and Iniesta. This Messi was never, ever seen 2 years ago. And no, Messi doesn't deserve that SPA for ALL of the eras listed for the set. His SPA has only improved since last year. Are you saying Messi deserved that SPA value during 09/10? His 09/10 season wasn't that different from 08/09. 09/10 was more of an improvement from 08/09. But that's different. The Messi from 09/10 to 10/11 was improvement, yes. But he also became more complete and changed his playstyle. These really aren't slight changes. There's a clear difference between improvement by improving your current skills and improvement where you improve skills not frequently used. Why not wait until Messi plays more as a playmaker to the point where a large enough difference is seen between the Messi from two years ago and the playmaker Messi now? I mean, two years ago, Messi's shots were dead accurate. He was easily the best poacher during those 2 years. Great placement, longshots usually curved into corners, great shot technique and most of his goals scored were dead accurate even when unbalanced. The Messi in the past year is less aggressive and doesn't have that goal hunger he did in the past. Stats may look the same but his playstyle has changed a lot. Messi is going through the exact phase Maradona went through. Only a lot younger than Maradona.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2009-2011 & 2005-2006

Postby jurgens » 2011 Oct 12, 03:22

And no, Messi doesn't deserve that SPA for ALL of the eras listed for the set.


No he doesn't deserve it for all eras listed in the set, as the set was originally only for one season. He deserves more for the 2010/2011 season.

His SPA has only improved since last year.


It hasn't only improved since last year, it's been improving for years. It wasn't all of a sudden at the world cup he became such an accomplished passer. Hes been demonstrating it for years, he just hadn't been demonstrating it frequently for Barcelona, as it wasn't his playstyle for them. In argentina, it's always been differnt and hes demdonstarted his passing ability much more often... as it was needed for him to create.. since no one esle could. His 86 SPA was decided at the end of 2009/2010 season, some wanted as high as 88.

Are you saying Messi deserved that SPA value during 09/10? His 09/10 season wasn't that different from 08/09.


Yes he deserved it, regardless of whether he showed it much or not, it's blatantly obvious he has a refined passing technique and capability in his passes. His passing has improved from 2010/2011 though, a lot. At least a two point jump to the 88/89/90 section. We could give him a lower a lower SPA for his 2009/2010 season, just to show a bigger gap in his passing ability... it's not really nesscary though.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby jurgens » 2011 Oct 12, 04:11

OKAY. Maybe the other mods won't like me creating two sets for two years :D But I've added a set for his most succesfull season to date. Made slight changes to his 2009/2010 set, and re-arranged the order of the posts so it's not so clogged up like before. Set's aren't perfect... but it's pretty good, few changes here and there are easily possible. Any thoughts suggestions, etc?

Could potentially add another set for his seasons prior to 2007 for the super agressive dribbling style he had back then. Something like 87 TS/97 acc/97 agi/97 DS... though probably that many sets is unnecessary.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby Xyder » 2011 Oct 12, 11:54

I understand the two sets for two years, but more sets it's really unnecessary, I mean, he's probably the best of history, but he's only 24 and he already has 3 sets when the most players have one or two sets.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby Basilio » 2011 Oct 12, 18:50

I really love the new set, in everything. The only thing which i dont agree is his att, which can be higher
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby tat2guy » 2011 Oct 14, 09:41

messi has been done ok... not great ... i mean your prob talking about the greatest player ever... i mean 205 goals in 310 games in morden football... hes shooting stats dont look that great ... yeah power looks about right... but sa? st? really lol 87 and 86.... the guy scored that many goals and only just turned 24.... then some bull "S" forward will have higher stats and and have a poor goal to game ratio.... the rest dont look too bad but you look at some other players and there stats are better yet maybe messi is best player of "all times" :) and i ant even messi fan..... just saying .

even hes short passing dont look that great and the guy makes so many goals.. the rest of hes stats look perfect thumps up... but should have a orange short passing and orange or 2 orange on sa st........... 114 goals in last 117 games...... SAY NO MORE
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby ballmer » 2011 Oct 14, 10:05

Shooting stats are not all that recreate goalscoring. Actually think how Messi's goals are scored. Indeed, many are scored with excellent placement, which is why his SA has been as high as 89 in his highest scoring season. He also has a very high attack which contributes. Plus it doesn't take amazing SA or ST to dribble round 3 defenders and tap the ball past the goalkeeper. He does have excellent finishing yes, but how can you think these values are not sufficient in game?
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby tasmin » 2011 Oct 14, 10:26

about the 2010-2011 set , i think we under-rated his attack a bit.easily 93 for me.

also i think he should had both free-roaming and darting run.

messi isn't all about mazing run but shows lots of darting runs in his movements and goals.

Spoiler: show


i also don't find his ST as closer as his SA. the video shows his shooting is basically placement and chip shots.

SA should be much higher than 87 and ST could come down a bit. lots of his shots has very poor connection but with good accuracy+luck(deflected) they turned in goal.also apart from the video he never seems to me as great shooter from difficult angles.basically when he plays for Argentina he proved that in proper way.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby Fixer » 2011 Oct 14, 12:05

I always thought that Messi's ST had a lot to do with his technique Itself, but I do not see coming down so much. In any case I dont find 86 an exageration.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby Fixer » 2011 Oct 14, 12:05

I always thought that Messi's ST had a lot to do with his technique Itself, but I do not see coming down so much. In any case I dont find 86 an exaggeration.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby JIN726 » 2011 Oct 14, 14:00

To sum up in a sentence ,I think Messi likes to show his ST,but his ST is not very good as a great striker.Messi's SA is great,can sit on world's top 3.But about his ST,it's not so.Many striker's ST is better than Messi.ST isn't messi's advantage. I think maybe ST 86 is very correct for him.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby zuo » 2011 Oct 17, 16:31

the passing star/card imo has to be removed . his passing ability has to be recreated with Attack + TW . passer is imo definitly for guys who , on a consisten basis , make 2-3 touches on the ball and then deliver an incisive pass. is much,much more suited for midfielders. since i removed it from Ibra he played much better . and hasn't even got yellow TW.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby Gent Soc » 2012 Mar 25, 10:43

OKAY. Maybe the other mods won't like me creating two sets for two years :D But I've added a set for his most succesfull season to date.
:o if its the reason, then looks like we will have one new set at the end of this season as he looks will more success than his last season (most succesfull complete season atm). also, he get some major change in his stats now compared with last season set, ex: PLUS 8 (5 and even 3 RED) in att, PLUS 6 in SA, PLUS 5 in spa, MINUS 4 in ts, and some other change. thats quite huge different (except we can say that his att stats also influenced by revolution in that aspect).
tbh, the conclusion is only two:
1. That kind of set isnt neccesary, or
2. Paradigm in determined classic player era's (which influence player stats) (may)should be changed.
based on consistency and consequences.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby jurgens » 2012 Mar 26, 22:47

Gent Soc wrote:
OKAY. Maybe the other mods won't like me creating two sets for two years :D But I've added a set for his most succesfull season to date.
:o if its the reason, then looks like we will have one new set at the end of this season as he looks will more success than his last season (most succesfull complete season atm). also, he get some major change in his stats now compared with last season set, ex: PLUS 8 (5 and even 3 RED) in att, PLUS 6 in SA, PLUS 5 in spa, MINUS 4 in ts, and some other change. thats quite huge different (except we can say that his att stats also influenced by revolution in that aspect).
tbh, the conclusion is only two:
1. That kind of set isnt neccesary, or
2. Paradigm in determined classic player era's (which influence player stats) (may)should be changed.



:o if its the reason, then looks like we will have one new set at the end of this season as he looks will more success than his last season (most succesfull complete season atm)


No.. we will extend the era by a year as he is basically the exact same player, no significant changes in his playstyle.

also, he get some major change in his stats now compared with last season set, ex: PLUS 8 (5 and even 3 RED) in att, PLUS 6 in SA, PLUS 5 in spa, MINUS 4 in ts, and some other change. thats quite huge different (except we can say that his att stats also influenced by revolution in that aspect).


These set's are extremely outdated with our "revolutions". Havn't been touched since long before we started updating players with these new standards.


1. That kind of set isnt neccesary, or


It is necessary to have a two sets that show the evolution of Messi as a player. From goal scorer and fast dribbler, to a slower player who relies much more on his intelligence and technical ability to win games as well as becoming a genius passer in the space of just a season or two.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby Gent Soc » 2012 Mar 27, 06:12

1. That kind of set isnt neccesary, or
What I mean with 'isnt necessary' in option no 1 is the fourth set.


first
jurgens wrote:OKAY. Maybe the other mods won't like me creating two sets for two years :D But I've added a set for his most succesfull season to date.
then
jurgens wrote:It is necessary to have a two sets that show the evolution of Messi as a player. From goal scorer and fast dribbler, to a slower player who relies much more on his intelligence and technical ability to win games as well as becoming a genius passer in the space of just a season or two.

;) Nah, thats what one of I want mate when I posted that post. More reason.
I personally also prefer to longer his era than add the new set. But since u only give the reason 'because this was his most succesfull season', it looks like because one player have better season, then add a new set is sufficient.
With your lot experiences, I think theres some reason besides that (not only 'this was most succesfull season'). But the problem is u didnt tell it.
And my post just try to stimulates more deep discussion/reason given, besides, empasized about level of necessity which based from data/argument (if - in future) in add new set. :)
Btw, I agree with most of update you recently did. Only st imo a bit high (in Barca 2009-2010), the rest are pretty well.
based on consistency and consequences.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby JIN726 » 2012 Mar 28, 11:08

Could you update the set for 2005~2006 in new standard ? :)
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby aladepollo2 » 2012 Aug 30, 04:45

What Messi fans don't understand (I'm talking about those who make the crazy suggestions) is that what is perhaps Messi's best ability cannot be replicated in-game. I'm talking about his decision-making. If you watch him play carefully - he almost always makes the right choice. For me, this is the defining factor that creates the abyss between him and the rest of the players. But alas - you cannot replicate it in-game. After all, it's just a video game, it has no true AI.

In other words - you will never be satisfied. But his stats are perfect and if you think like Messi - in-game Messi will play like real Messi.
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Re: Leo MESSI | 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Postby vinnie » 2012 Sep 04, 08:10

I was looking at some video of 2009-2010 messi.

the WC was where he really began exploring a new style, a new sort of role to play in, but even during the 2009-2010 season, he showed some stunning passes with beautiful accuracy. At least high yellows-low oranges for SPA and mid-high yellows for LPA, i don't have enough recollection or watched footage to suggest a higher value then that, or i would say his passing accuracy is but a touch lower then than now, the difference being his primary focus when playing. I don't really believe he developed so astonishingly at his passing... he had the quality, it's plain to see, just that he was so sublime with his dribbling, i've almost forgotten what an incredible dribbler he was. He has changed alot, in his game stance and his physical abilities, Messi moves way less and tracks back way way less then he did before now, he's gotta have better stamina and teamwork here compared to current Messi i think. He really must have higher DS then current Messi, to re-emphasize.
His dribbling stats are better replicated by konami's as well, 98/98/98 DA/DS/AGI, in this time his dribbling speed was fucking insane. if someone suggested 99 DS i wouldn't call him crazy.

There's a conundrum i'm thinking about, in that, in those years 2009-2010, in that time even he was more prone to dribble and do things himself with his astonishing dribbling, more selfish if you will, but he also moved more then current Messi, current Messi is alot less selfish, but moves way less. A contradiction of the two traits of TW :? ? Anyone know how to replicate these characteristics?

My thoughts. Anyone share them?
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