SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Moderators: Korinov, Epsi, Adrien, frshmn, Albo7, Brezza, jurgens

SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby Brezza » 2008 Dec 11, 18:20

Nickname: "Doctor" ("Doutor") | *Golden Heel* (*Calcanhar de Ouro*)

Club: Corinthians




INFO:

Spoiler: show
One of the most elegant midfield generals in football history, Socrates, began his career in Botafogo. He was never a teenage star and didn't make his debut in the Brazilian national team until he was 25. He was blessed with wonderful skills, vision and seemed to have so many options when he was on the ball. He was able to play the ball wherever and whenever he wanted. His signature move was the blind heel pass became famous world wide. These rare skills combined with the fact that he was a medical student more than justified him being nicknamed the Doctor. Socrates captained Brazil's fantastic World Cup team of 1982 partnering Cerezo, Falcao and Zico in midfield. He scored twice in that tournament, one of them being a marvelous goal against the Soviet Union when he dribbled past two players before firing it home from long range. Brazil didn't reach the semifinals in that tournament, but played some wonderful soccer.

Socrates was not an ordinary athlete, in fact he didn't look at himself as an athlete. He smoked a pack of cigarettes every day, and that was one of the reasons to why he never settled in Italy when he arrived there in 1984 to play for Fiorentina. The lifestyle didn't suit him and he went back to Brazil a year later.


HONOURS

Spoiler: show
Club
Corinthians
3 Times Brazil State Champions

Country
60 Caps 22 Goals

Individual
1983 South American Footballer of The Year
Brazil Football Museum Hall of Fame


VIDEOS:

Spoiler: show




ADDITIONAL LINKS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B3crates

http://www.planetworldcup.com/LEGENDS/socrates.html

Last edited by Brezza on 2010 Jan 12, 18:14, edited 5 times in total.
" If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." - Isaac Newton
User avatar
Brezza
 
Posts: 2566
Joined: 2008 Dec 08, 23:57
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 6 times

by »



 

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby enzo234 » 2011 Dec 05, 06:32

R.I.P. Much more than a footballer, a true intellectual

User avatar
enzo234
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 2010 Dec 06, 20:25
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby jorgecavs » 2011 Dec 05, 07:42

RIP Doutor . :cry:

User avatar
jorgecavs
 
Posts: 4489
Joined: 2009 Apr 03, 19:12
Location: Argentina
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby Anders » 2012 Jan 12, 01:17

Since the Doctor death I have being trying to watch almost any video that I find of him, by what I have watch from him until now and read about I would do those changes:

DEF: 48
He was really good in position himself on defence even played later on his career as CMF, beside he not having a great STA he still would help the defence sometimes.
BB: 79
Probably should be even lower, he was very weak for his size, he could be outmuscled by almost every one though he could use well his body to shield the ball but at any pressure and he would go to the ground, his low strength was even one of the reason that he learned to make those, flicks, acrobatics and back heel passes he could let the defenders get near him or they would throw him on the stalls.
RES: 76
He don't RES to emulate his movements not anything especially in 82 World Cup that he played as SMF (Though he would move a bit and change of position a lot), he could do some nice slide tackles and would made some runs to the box but I think that those things can be made with card and his high ATK.
SPA: 95
He don't need 96, his passes are amazing but is lot more a kind of acrobatic pass than exactly an perfect accurate pass, a lot of player could pop those kind of passes (though no one was ever that good doing a back heel pass.), player's like Deco, Zidane, Hagi and Maradona. He is not better than Xavi too.
SPS: 90
Save his amazing super fast back heel passes, I don't see need of having him with SPS 92, his passes didn’t go faster than 90 and very frequent would float of the ground.
LPA: 87 LPS: 88
I'm playing with this long pass combination, he don't deserve to be in the same level of Snejder he would play very simple generally just opening to the wings, he prefer to make a ground pass a lot more than a long one, maybe he can deserve +1 in LPA but not higher.
FKA: 84~83
He was a good free kick taker, but had a poor placement was more power and curl than anything.
Jump: 74
His leap was really bad, he generally would just use his Height as advantage to win aerial balls.
AGG: 74
Maybe lower, he would drop a lot to take the ball near the defence, similar to the movement that Xavi does.
MEN: 80
He was a leader, not just because he was the Brazil National Team Captain but outside the field he changed a lot of things, like when he implemented democracy in his club Corinthians (Brazil was living a military dictatorship on that time.), his mind was far a had his time, though he didn’t had a great fight spirit so he can't have a better value, in pair with actual Xavi is fair IMO.
WFF: 6
He was not a WFF 8 maybe a 7, he would preference use a lot more his right foot especially when dribbling.
CARDS:
Remove P03 – Trickster and P07 – Early Cross, he don't deserve they did some crosses when was in the world cup but IMO not enough to be an early cross.
ADD S 08 – Slide Tackle and maybe S 01 – Marauding or P15 – Free Roaming, I'm 100% sure about slide tackle he was very clean in they and would made they very frequent too. I'm not sure about the other 2 cards, how he would play as AMF in Corinthians he would join a lot in the attack, he would perform they very well not sure with was frequent enough, even because we are talking about an AMF with ATK 85.
I have some doubts about his AGI and his shotting stats, probably -1 in AGI and ST, but I need to watch him more.

User avatar
Anders
 
Posts: 1584
Joined: 2010 Apr 01, 17:27
Location: Brazil
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby Brezza » 2012 Jan 12, 18:06

He was pretty decent at shielding the ball, but thats understandable giving his height and DA. He had pretty slender build and could be out-muscled too often for an 85 value like you said, but he could also show abit of rigor in some of his tackles..Maybe more of a low 80's (same as Konami) his reading of the game in the sense of his anticipation in the box and his decently timed sliding tackles could be emulated with *sliding/high attack/teamwork/free roaming, so I can agree with lower response. I'd still put it slightly higher than the likes of Xavi though 78/79. Theres actually pretty decent comparison between him and Marouane Fellaini in terms of speed, response and agility.

This quote Phil made about him suits Socrates' style of play as well.

Spoiler: show
Phil wrote:Response could probably come down to a 79. He is quite unresponsive and has a very laid back approach to the game, but he is a clever player who can read the game and covers space very well though a lot of his covering and mileage ran throughout a game goes unnoticed. Acceleration could probably come down to a 77 or so, he is not the best in the first few steps but is decent once he gets going, especially compared to players like Y. Toure. I'm still not 100% sure on what to give him for agility though. ...


I might test SPS though as I think 92 replicated him quite well.

" If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." - Isaac Newton
User avatar
Brezza
 
Posts: 2566
Joined: 2008 Dec 08, 23:57
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby Anders » 2012 Jan 13, 17:29

I can see him with ACC 77, I played with this value when I was testing him with TS 83, I agree with this value of RES, conbined with his ATK can emulate his sense of anticipation in the box, even because I'm thinking that a card like free roaming or reacton are too much for him. His SPS IMO is worst than actual Xavi one, so I would decrease at least in 1 point, so he can pop those fast pass in game without you having time to fill the pass bar and dosen't make him able to made extreme fast pass whem he has space like Xavi does.
By the way you wrong update his WFA instead of WFF.

User avatar
Anders
 
Posts: 1584
Joined: 2010 Apr 01, 17:27
Location: Brazil
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby jurgens » 2012 Mar 22, 08:00

We need to overhaul this set. I was playing a lot of matches as classic brazil against my brother and using him in AMF, tbh he was way too good in his movements, so twisty and turny.. really hard to disposses. Got two matches stockpiled to watch and theres a good few vs xteam matches on youtube, should be enough. Though I'm thinking we'll need two sets for him. I'm really suprised by him. I really thought he was just lazy and unfit.. maybe the second was through, but hes moving A LOT.. very slowly and relaxed like hes taking a little walk/jog with no sense of urgency.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

LeMisérable wrote:im not mad, why should I be mad just because of you, your nothing, 1 in 7 billion, i mean dude
User avatar
jurgens
 
Posts: 8402
Joined: 2009 Jul 19, 15:33
Has thanked: 888 times
Been thanked: 558 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby Brezza » 2012 Mar 22, 17:55

I'd be down for a further drop in DS and Agility, especially after the whole discussion on DA influences movement and how height doesn't really make much of a difference to agility as the forum was preaching. Probably needs a more extreme DS value to represent his style better. I'm thinking lower teamwork as well but want to test it out before changing it though.

" If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." - Isaac Newton
User avatar
Brezza
 
Posts: 2566
Joined: 2008 Dec 08, 23:57
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby jurgens » 2012 Mar 23, 06:47

Okay well... for the 1986 world cup. His speed on the ball is like 60's, he hardly move with it at all. I seen him make one run ONCE that was about a 78 or so, but it was just once. He hardly dribbles, his tackling is really good, seems every match he makes at least two sliding tackles and wins the ball. His long passing is more threatening than his short, 90+ like konamis. His short passing isn't that threatening, I think this value is more symbolic than anything, you can see the differnce between him and zico and it's sizeable... in zicos favor. Agility is not something he really uses... he doesn't dribble he tends to pass the ball before people get to him. You can see he is agile, but it's not on display, a green value is a good idea.. he'd actually be extremly smooth on the ball with even a white.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

LeMisérable wrote:im not mad, why should I be mad just because of you, your nothing, 1 in 7 billion, i mean dude
User avatar
jurgens
 
Posts: 8402
Joined: 2009 Jul 19, 15:33
Has thanked: 888 times
Been thanked: 558 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby jurgens » 2012 Apr 27, 19:35



The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

LeMisérable wrote:im not mad, why should I be mad just because of you, your nothing, 1 in 7 billion, i mean dude
User avatar
jurgens
 
Posts: 8402
Joined: 2009 Jul 19, 15:33
Has thanked: 888 times
Been thanked: 558 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby Defo » 2012 Apr 28, 11:18

Isn't his mentality criminally low? I'd stick to Konami's one.

THE DELIVERER.

#BITW

Albo7 wrote:Education is important, but big biceps are importanter.
User avatar
Defo
 
Posts: 518
Joined: 2011 Mar 20, 09:02
Location: Rudilandia
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 60 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby 21fadhil » 2012 Apr 28, 11:25

That stamina is criminal if compared to ronaldo corinthians era.

F.E.A.R
Forget Everything And Remember
For Everything A Reason
User avatar
21fadhil
 
Posts: 445
Joined: 2011 Sep 04, 10:10
Location: Indonesia
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby jurgens » 2012 Apr 28, 11:27

why

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

LeMisérable wrote:im not mad, why should I be mad just because of you, your nothing, 1 in 7 billion, i mean dude
User avatar
jurgens
 
Posts: 8402
Joined: 2009 Jul 19, 15:33
Has thanked: 888 times
Been thanked: 558 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby 21fadhil » 2012 Apr 28, 12:21

Well, he's sometime moves like a half-dead man on the pitch.Also, he was a heavy smoker and rarely trains himself.I actually was too harsh for compared him to Ronaldo in Corinthians, though.But still, i think he needs lower value than he has now.

F.E.A.R
Forget Everything And Remember
For Everything A Reason
User avatar
21fadhil
 
Posts: 445
Joined: 2011 Sep 04, 10:10
Location: Indonesia
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby Akiak » 2012 Jun 06, 17:03

I simply don't see the 95 SPA. I'd drop it to 90-91 at max. His passes are extremely well-thought (the stars and cards should take care of this aspect), but the actual execution not so much.

What I do see is a big raise in TW. 90 would put him on par with Valderrama, but I'd go even higher. The quality of his play comes from his movement and his ideas, always in sync with his teammates.

Also jurgens, you should add that video to the first post.

User avatar
Akiak
 
Posts: 204
Joined: 2011 Dec 30, 16:47
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby Brezza » 2012 Jun 27, 19:30

Ive seen him make some amazing passes here and there especially first time 'blind' passes, back heels etc l but I see where your coming from...sometimes too much vision fro his own good :D over doing it when the consistancy isnt quite at Zico's level ( who I rightfully put back to 95)

I can agree with higher teamwork for his superb movement/footballing Brain, much higher mentality (which will help with low stamina so his overall abilities wont be lessened ) higher def for his tackiling ability , and DS level with Valderrama?

" If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." - Isaac Newton
User avatar
Brezza
 
Posts: 2566
Joined: 2008 Dec 08, 23:57
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby Akiak » 2012 Jul 04, 09:12

Pretty much agree with all of those changes. SPA should def be under Zico, but I still want to acknowledge his great vision and his awesome back-heel passes, so maybe 94 would be a good value. I also wouldn't go overboard for TW because I don't want to make him too active, I think 90 is good.

As for DS, I think he should be a bit higher than Valderrama. Socrates could occasionally make a little sprint on the ball, unlike Valderrama. Maybe 69, not any lower.

What about TEC? Technique doesn't only have to do with trapping the ball, it's also about making passes from difficult angles, like ST except for passes instead of shots. I have tested this personally and I can confirm it. 95 is already a high value, but considering the amount of back-heel passes he makes, it could be 96.

User avatar
Akiak
 
Posts: 204
Joined: 2011 Dec 30, 16:47
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby Vickingo » 2012 Jul 09, 22:53

Sorry about the poor comment, but just watching these and man...what elegance, what class, look at his 1st touch/passing/vision, how he managed the whole team...just perfect. Probably we should decrease his agg/ds/agi, for what I've seen i could agree about them.


User avatar
Vickingo
 
Posts: 13353
Joined: 2010 Jun 09, 02:18
Location: Argentina
Has thanked: 573 times
Been thanked: 377 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby frshmn » 2012 Jul 10, 03:26

Doesn't anyone else think his passing speeds need to be decreased rather drastically? I've gone over just about every video of his on Zouzinho's channel, bar maybe one or two, and the vast, vast majority of his short passes just about end up rolling towards the target. Likewise, his long passes typically float towards the target, without any real venom (he performs a lot of chipped passes, so it's to be expected).

I ask because in my own set, I've given him low green values for SPS, as well as LPS, and obviously the contrast between the sets is stark! Perhaps I'm being overly critical of his passing, but for sure, these current values for pass speed are too high, right?

Last edited by frshmn on 2012 Jul 27, 12:56, edited 1 time in total.
Formerly Madvillain.
User avatar
frshmn
 
Posts: 384
Joined: 2011 Apr 16, 22:45
Has thanked: 157 times
Been thanked: 129 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby Akiak » 2012 Jul 27, 05:30

I agree 100% with you, Madvillain. His passes were extremely slow, and I think that a green value for both would emulate him much better.

Other than that, I really like the current set.

User avatar
Akiak
 
Posts: 204
Joined: 2011 Dec 30, 16:47
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: SÓCRATES | 1981-1982

Postby Yazid » 2012 Jul 27, 10:18

Sps is high to replicate the power he got on his trademark back heel passes. Lps could be lower though.

Yazid
 
Posts: 876
Joined: 2011 Jan 16, 23:34
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 56 times

PreviousNext

Return to 80's

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest