Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

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Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby Plava Čigra » 2009 Jun 04, 01:08

Stats by Plava Čigra (with some help from yourigo & Classical)


Nickname: *Plava Čigra* (literary translation would be *Blond Gyroscope*; I think that most of the foreign journalists called him *Blond Arrow*, same as Di Stefano) | *Plavi Anđeo* (*Blond Angel*)

Image Image

Club: Partizan Belgrade



Growth type: Standard


INFO:

Miloš Milutinović was the most talented player in the history of Yugoslavian football. Player with excellent technique, very fast and agile, who scored a lot of goals for Partizan Belgrade and Yugoslavian national team. He was fantastic reader of the game, and he had unique style of dribble. Some of the attackers use size and toughness for making themselves position. Milutinović is not that kind of player. Completely opposite of that. Although not weak in 1-on-1 duels with attackers, he always used his speed, agility and his unique dribbling. He later said that he practiced his dribbling in one unusual way. He would walk down the Belgrade's most crowded street and watch other people's body reaction on his body movement, as they passed by him on that street.

He scored 231 goals in 213 matches (if we are looking at official games, he scored 204 goals in 193 games) for Partizan Belgrade, in 6 years period. He was the first player to score in new European top club championship called then European Champion Clubs Cup (today, that's Champions League). Also he was first scorer of this competition in that first season (1955/1956) with 8 goals, leaving behind him such legends, like Di Stefano and Hidegkuti. In the game against Real Madrid (played in Madrid, 4:0 for Real), he scored 2 goals which were canceled (because of this Santiago Bernabeu later apologized, saying that he feel ashamed, because of those referee's mistakes, which Bernabeu and audience of stadium considered as robbery of Partizan and he mentioned that he don't know from what place came the decision that Real has to win that trophy; it's needless to say that both goals were regular). Same thing happened in Belgrade (3:0 for Partizan), because Milutinović scored 2 goals, Mihajlović 1 and again 1 regular goal was canceled by the referee. Let it be remembered, that the referees were in the First leg Dean Harzic (France) and in Second leg Josef Gulde (Switzerland).

After those games, Bernabeu tried several times, to persuade Miloš to sign for Real. But Miloš refused every time, because he liked playing in his own country and because money was no object for him. Even if he wanted to sign, he couldn't, because players in Yugoslavian football weren't allow to leave country and play for foreign teams, before they were 30 years old (only a few player have left while being 28 or 29 years old). And Miloš was 23-24 years old, when these offers have been made! Beside that Yugoslavia had no diplomatic relations with Franco's fasistic regime. But all those things couldn't stop Bernabeu, and he made his final offer while Partizan was on Swedish tour. He gave Miloš empty check, telling him to write any number, and that he will arrange all the necessary emigration paper and Spanish passport. Once again, Miloš refused. Years after that, Bernabeu admitted that seeing Miloš in Real's white uniform while playing with Di Stefano, was one of a few of his unfulfilled wishes. He also admitted that Kopa would never came to Madrid, if he signed Miloš.

He then moved to OFK Beograd. In 1959, he underwent surgery for his ongoing lung problems (Bayern president made a deal with him to pay all of his medical bills, and when he recovers from tuberculosis, he will play 1 year for Bayern). The best proof, what impression he made in München, is that he's marked as the 50th greatest player to play in Bayern (just after 20 games, and while playing after long rehabilitation, after the part of his lung has been removed). He stayed one year in Germany before playing in Paris.

Before moving to Paris, he was negotiating with two Italian teams, Inter and Catania. But the negotiations broke down, since one Yugoslavian reporter (who was, at that time, writing for one respected Italian sport newspaper) wrote that after the operation above Milutinović's career hangs big question mark (this off course was just ridiculous, because Miloš almost fully recuperated, and the only thing was that he couldn't run as much as before, but than, he never was a player who run the whole game). It was one of those petty thing that jealous people do.

Then he played for Racing Club de France (66 games/28 goals) and he was recognized as one of the greatest players in history of this club ( http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_Club_de_France_Football#Grands_noms_du_pass.C3.A9 ). In fact, during his stay here, the club was 2. in Division 1, during 1961/1962 and 1962/1963 seasons. In 1961, Paris Football Magazine printed a list of football players who marked that year. Among 12 players, there was Milutinović's name and picture. After being at Racing for 2 years, he joined Stade Français for the next two seasons.

After the spell in France, he retired and became Sport Director of OFK Beograd. He reactivated in 1967/68 season, because OFK Beograd's attackers (Skoblar and Samardžić) have gone to foreign clubs, and only the young players stayed. When Šekularac heard that Miloš is going to reactivate, he called him and asked him, could he come and play together with Miloš. Needless to say that they were spectacular pair of attackers, both with great technical abilities. On every OFK Beograd game, there were 30.000 viewers. That's the one of the greatest (if not the greatest) average of fans in Yugoslavian football history. Even on trainings, they often had 10.000 viewers, who were there to see two great artists in football. He finished his career in 1968/1969 season.

During his prime he was compared by many with Sindelar, in the terms of speed, dribbling and technique (Bobek was also compared with this excellent Austrian player). When Cruyff appeared on the football stage, many people agreed that his style of play, during the attacks, although unique, reminded them on one legend who did almost all those things 15-20 years ago, Miloš Milutinović.

Miloš Milutinović died on 28th of January, 2003.


VIDEOS:


(scores against France at 1954 World Cup)



00:10 - Milutinović dribbles through Red Star defense, goes on the side, makes a long pass, and then Zebec jumps very high and hammers the ball with his head, with two Red Star defenders on him (you can't see too much on the video, except the goal, but thrust me, I spoke to a few old Partizan fans, and they described this situation like that, before I found it on youtube; older fans remember this game particularly, because it was the highest victory against Red Star/Crvena Zvezda, 7-1 was the score)


ADDITIONAL LINKS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo%C5%A1_Milutinovi%C4%87

http://www.reprezentacija.rs/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1314&Itemid=12

http://sr.wikipedia.org/sr/%D0%9C%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%88_%D0%9C%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%83%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%9B

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2003/jan/31/guardianobituaries.football

http://www.vreme.com/cms/view.php?id=331966

http://www.renaldinhos.com/2010/06/milos-milutinovic-al-real-madrid-1956.html

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/statisticsandrecords/players/player=174770/index.html

Last edited by Plava Čigra on 2009 Nov 24, 15:32, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ 1952/1958

Postby Rubedo » 2009 Jul 01, 12:24

Nice job.

Some stuff...

His acceleration should probably go down a point or maybe two, while his agility should go up. He was nicknamed ''Plava Čigra'' because of his ability to quickly change direction of movement at high speeds. That nickname would usually be given to someone of Maradona's size, or maybe Messi's. 92 is not enough for someone who is 181 cm tall and is famous for his agility. I suggest 95. Also, I would probably give him a point or two for his mentality.

His SA should definitively be lower, since You reduced Bobek's to 92. Bobek is widely considered to be the best shooter in the history of Partizan. No Partizan player should have higher SA than him, especially from the same generation.

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ 1952/1958

Postby HFClub » 2009 Jul 01, 13:49

I agree with SA down to 92, and Agilty to go up. ACC, from what i see and read, i would let it rest as it is.

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ 1952/1958

Postby Rubedo » 2009 Jul 01, 14:25

One more thing.

He mainly played as the right winger because although he was originally CF, that position was always taken.

For an example, in that game against France that we won thanks to his goal he played as RWF. There used to be a video on Youtube with line-ups of both Yugoslavia and France, but now I can't find it. It was the same video as that from the first post, except it had starting 11s.

Anyway, our starting eleven looked like this:

1) Vladimir Beara.
2) Branko Stanković.
3) Tomislav Crnković.
4) Zlatko Čajkovski.
5) Ivica Horvat.
6) Vujadin Boškov.
18) Miloš Milutinović.
8) Rajko Mitić.
9) Bernard Vukas.
10) Stjepan Bobek.
11) Branko Zebec.

It was probably the best line-up we ever had.

The same thing was with Partizan. He almost always played the right winger.

Last edited by Rubedo on 2009 Jul 02, 23:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ 1952/1958

Postby Plava Čigra » 2009 Jul 02, 20:17

I accepted the suggestions.

In every video I saw him, he was on the wing position (except against France), but I decided to listen written sources, in which he's described as CF first, and then as a winger. I've corrected that now.

He was right winger, but he changed sides during the game, so I've gave him Side: B, when I first created him ;).

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ 1952/1958

Postby Plava Čigra » 2009 Nov 19, 18:22

I'm continuing update process on my classic players. My update on this player stats is based on one excellent book written by Mile Kos, called: Miloš, čarobnjak fudbala (Miloš, footballing wizard). I will also commentate every aspect of this player's stats (even the ones I will not change) in order to justify my numbers and explain why this player, in his prime, should be among 10 greatest players of all times. Sounds over the top but bare with me, if you want to try to understand why do I have such opinion.


1. Attack: 90 - Decreased by 2 points. Maybe I would gave him lower value (88-89), because he never was a classic poaching type of attacker, but his excellent skill in evading his markers "forced" me to leave such high value.

2. Defence: 30 - No need for a change. Pretty standard value. He rarely came back to his team's half of the field and even more rarely in front of his own penalty box.

3. Body Balance: 79 - Again, no need for a change. Miloš was really superior technical player and dribbler, so he didn't use strength, he used his dribbling, speed and technique.

4. Stamina: 80 - Decreased by 3 points. This is by far his biggest flaw. Due to illness or some minor injuries he almost never was fully fit to run all 90 minutes.

5. Top Speed: 92 - No need for an update. Blue Arrow was specific type of attacker who used his fantastic Speed and Acceleration to find himself a good position for receiving of the ball, and when he ran pass the defenders in order to do so, no defender in the World (during his Era) could catch him.

6. Acceleration: 93 - Same as for Top Speed.

7. Response: 89 - No need for an update. He and Bobek formed such excellent partnership that he always knew where Bobek's ball is going to go (same as Bobek knew where he's going to be). Also, he had specific way of ball receiving (while he was running, and almost reaching his Top Speed), so he didn't needed just Technique, but fantastic reactions in order to decide what to do with the ball at that speed (pass or dribble, try to find his teammate or play 1-2 pass... these are all decisions that he successfully made in the same moment as he was receiving the ball).

8. Agility: 96 - Up by 1 point. This was his strongest weapon when he dribbled. After he received the ball, he wouldn't slow down, he would keep going, keeping the close control to the ball and doing his famous body dribbling. Only a few defenders didn't fall on the ground, while trying to keep up with his quick changes of the direction followed by this body dribbling, and there was no defender in the World, at that time, who had a chance to win that 1 on 1 duel.

9. Dribble Accuracy: 94 - Up by 2 points. I respect Rubedo's opinion about Bobek's DA, so I won't raise Miloš's DA over 94, but let it be known that everybody agrees (I mean football experts, coaches, opponents and Bobek himself) that Miloš is the best dribbler in the history of Yugoslavian football. Since I gave him Agility: 96, and Dribble Speed: 95, he would really act like the best dribbler of all times, in Yugoslavian football (just his DA will be a point or two bellow Bobek).

10. Dribble Speed: 95 - Up by 1 point. Tremendous speed while dribbling. He always dribbled in straight line, from center to the penalty box, and he often dribble as rational as he could (although in some cases he enjoyed to treat crowd with some fantastic, out-of-this-planet move or dribbling). Off course, I don't literally mean in straight line, but in the way that is fastest in terms of goal reaching. Although he wasn't a classic poacher (like Van Nistelrooy, for example) he always thought what is the most rational way he could score a goal, from the position he was in (dribbling was the easiest way to reach the box, if he couldn't play 1-2 pass with his teammate).

11. Short Pass Accuracy: 79 - No need for an update. His short passes were quite good, and the only thing that stops me to increase it to 81-82, is his lack of quantity, since his main task was goal scoring.

12. Short Pass Speed: 80 - Decreased by 1 point. Pretty nice speed on his short passes.

13. Long Pass Accuracy: 81 - Decreased by 2 points. Almost the same thing as for SPA (only in this case I would give him 84-85 for LPA, if he was more regular at making these passes).

14. Long Pass Speed: 82 - Decreased by 3 points. Main factor for this Ability update, is that he rarely (dare I say, almost never) tried deep long passes, but almost always side crosses into the penalty box, and for that purposes 82 is enough for LPS.

15. Shot Accuracy: 91 - Up by 1 point. Again, great number of football experts (again, including Bobek) claimed that Milutinović is the best shooter in the team. He scored goals with ease from distance, or inside the box (he didn't care what's the distance as long as he had enough room to try a shot). Off course, bigger number of his shots were from the inside (on the edge of) the box, because of his great dribbling skills. With this value he's still under Bobek (I'm trying not to overrate him, although it's hard to separate Bobek and him, in terms of dribbling, technique and shooting).

16. Shot Power: 86 - Up by 4 points. He had excellent power, when he was almost fully fit. I could gave him higher value, like 90-91, but judging by the number of games he played fully fit and not extremely high number of attempts outside the box, I think 86 is good enough value.

17. Shot Technique: 92 - Decreased by 1 point. In first moment, one could think he needs red number, but that would be a mistake (at least, in my opinion), since he also knew to dribble out from the hard angles and create better position for his shot.

18. Free Kick Accuracy: 75 - No need for an update. He was a decent FK taker, but he didn't got too many chances to show his skill. When he did, he either scored or gave the keeper a lot of trouble. When he took FKs, his main weapon was his Curling ability.

19. Curling: 85 - No need for an update. Already explained in FKA.

20. Header: 86 - No need for an update. Excellent heading ability. Some players and coaches compared his heading and jump abilities with Kocsis (also, he had similar heading technique as Kocsis, because he hit the ball with his head, while his eyes were open).

21. Jump: 86 - Up by 2 points. One argument is already given while explaining Header. Other arguments are his pretty high bicycle kicks and his great leap when attempting to reach ball in the air (with his head, off course).

22. Technique: 93 - No need for an update. I've explained this earlier, while explaining Dribbling and Response. 1 or 2 points under Bobek.

23. Aggression: 89 - Down by 3 points. 89 is pretty good value for him, since he didn't strictly stick to his position. He knew to change sides and positions quite a few times during the game. Even with those changes of the positions Bobek and Miloš always had almost telepathic connection, and they both knew where the other one is positioned and what he will do next.

24. Mentality: 90 - Up by 8 points. Everybody should bare in mind that he actually wasn't the type of player who constantly works on the field. He used his skills with great success during the game, but in intervals. For example, he could dribble from center into the box, score and in 5 minutes score again, but after that he wouldn't run too much in order to conserve his strength for other parts of the game. Or, many times, it seemed that he is possessed. Some kind of furious determination would capture him, and even if he was tired before that moment, he had that fantastic ability to play last 30-40 minutes (if his team is searching for goal or two or even three or four) like he just started the game. That's why I think this raise is necessary.

25. Team Work: 78 - Up by 3 points. He had great cooperation with his teammates, but he doesn't need higher value than this, in order to replicate his solo actions (also 75 was too low, I must say). Just to make it clear, he always listened to the coach, he wasn't selfish, it's just one part of the tactic was that when the ball comes to him, he almost always has to try to get past the defender (coaches in those days gave a lot of creative freedom to players like Milutinović or Bobek, who could do wonders with ball) or play 1-2 pass with his teammate, in order to score or sometimes assist.

26. Injury Tolerance: B - No need for an update. He suffered an injury now and then, but nothing serious (until in 1958 his lung problems became really serious).

27. Condition: 6 - No need for an update. 213 games in 6 years. I think 6 isn't too much.

28. Weak Foot Accuracy: 8 - No need for an update. He played with his both feet, and he didn't care with what foot he would dribble, shot or pass.
Weak Foot Frequency: 8 - No need for an update. Explanation above.

29. Growth type: Standard - Was Early Peak. I've changed this since with Standard growth type he'll start to decline in the mid 20s, and that really happened after that lung operation.

30. Old Special Abilities (added *Outside and removed *Lines):

*Dribbling
*Reaction
*Scoring
*1-1 Scoring
*1-Touch Pass
*Outside

Explanation:
*Dribbling - Already explained above.
*Reaction - Always made excellent runs, especially when Bobek had the ball.
*Scoring - Check his number of goals and matches. But more important thing than number of goals is his skill to use every piece of the free space, in order to score goals. *1-1 Scoring - Almost always a cool finisher.
*1-Touch Pass & *Outside - He didn't care how he should pass or shot. It didn't mattered to him, if he had to take a volley or try a shot with outside of his foot. He had natural ability to do all those things with ease.

31. P Cards - P06: Speed Merchant - "A pacey player who likes to get forward."; P07: Mazing Run - "A great dribbler whose turns and dummies are a handful for any defence."; P12: Incisive Run - "A dribbler whose expertise is to cut in from the wide areas looking for goal scoring opportunities."

32. S Cards - S01: Reaction - "The player will regularly run behind the defence and go for goal." S03: 1-on-1 Finish - "Makes 1-on-1’s easier to put away." S05: 1-touch play - "Improves the player’s first touch when passing and shooting." S06: Outside Curve - "Improves touch when using the outside of the foot." S14: Quick Turn - "Enables Quick Turn."; S18: Cross Over Turn - "Enables Cross Over Turn."; S20: Scooping - "Enables Ball Scooping."

I've also added Attack/Defence Awareness Card: Attack Minded.

I'm very grateful to Nrby for his help with new P Cards, Attack and Response.

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby Rubedo » 2010 Jan 17, 18:08

This guy needs an update. At his prime (although he didn't actually reach his full prime because of his lung problems, but that's another story) he was the most dominant player in the history of Yugoslav football. I've played with him and against him, and he didn't seem nearly as dominant as some other players like Bobek and Šekularac. He should be almost unstoppable.

For that reason I would suggest an increase in some of his stats. I have in mind stats of the other Yugoslav players, so I am not just pulling these numbers out of my ass.

I would suggest 94 or 95 for ACC, 95 or 96 for his DA, 96 or 97 for DS, and 94 or 95 for TEC. I've already talked to Plava Čigra and he agrees to all of this. Milutinović's BB is fairly small (79) so these stats I suggested won't make him too good, but they should make him more dominant and capable of defeating the other teams by himself now and then, just like he did in reality. :P

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 Jan 18, 06:16

Yes, I agreed on Rubedo's suggestions, because of two main reasons.

1. When I was making Miloš Milutinović, I had to be extra harsh on his greatest skills. You see, he is my favourite footballer of all times, and I didn't want to overrate him, so I choose the most conservative values. So, I waited to see is there somebody who thinks he's underrated.

I will also state that, in my opinion, he was the best dribbler in 1950s. I consider myself as somebody with decent knowledge of that Era, and I claim that Garrincha and Stanley Matthews are definitely behind him (if you're looking at all things that affect dribbling). Milutinović had lung problem and because of that some people tend to forget how good he was. To show that my opinion isn't just wild guessing, the best proof of Milutinović's greatness (that will be significant for every classic football fan) is that Real Madrid wanted him instead of Kopa. I'll quote my INFO:

After those games, Bernabeu tried several times, to persuade Miloš to sign for Real. But Miloš refused every time, because he liked playing in his own country and because money was no object for him. Even if he wanted to sign, he couldn't, because players in Yugoslavian football weren't allow to leave country and play for foreign teams, before they were 30 years old (only a few player have left while being 28 or 29 years old). And Miloš was 23-24 years old, when these offers have been made! Beside that Yugoslavia had no diplomatic relations with Franco's fasistic regime. But all those things couldn't stop Bernabeu, and he made his final offer while Partizan was on Swedish tour. He gave Miloš empty check, telling him to write any number, and that he will arrange all the necessary emigration paper and Spanish passport. Once again, Miloš refused. Years after that, Bernabeu admitted that seeing Miloš in Real's white uniform while playing with Di Stefano, was one of a few of his unfulfilled wishes. He also admitted that Kopa would never came to Madrid, if he signed Miloš.


2. When I was comparing him with other great players, these values looked best suited for Milutinović:

ACC: 95-96,
Agility: 96-97,
DA: 96-97,
DS: 96-97,
TEC: 95-96.

And because of that I tend to go with Rubedo's suggestions. Rubedo didn't suggest Agility raise here, I just wanted for people to see my thoughts on his strongest skills (to be completely honest, I still think Agility: 97 would fit him better, because of his height ;) ).

***

Because of all those things, I've updated him...

Acceleration: 93>95,
Dribble Accuracy: 94>96,
Dribble Speed: 95>97,
Technique: 93>95.

I didn't update Agility, because I still want to hear Rubedo's opinion on that subject.

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby Rubedo » 2010 Jan 18, 15:39

I knew I forgot to mention something. :oops: Yeah, we already discussed his AGI, and I suggested a raise. I first thought that 95 or at least 96 will be enough, but it's obvious really that it isn't. He's simply too tall. :|

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 Jan 18, 18:45

Updated Agility (96>97).

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby Rubedo » 2010 Jan 18, 19:49

One more thing, isn't his STA a tad too low? I'm aware of his lung problems, high MEN, and everything that's been written here, but his team did rely a lot on him, and by that I mean on him running and dribbling. Bobek and Veselinović have 82, and I would put Milutinović somewhere in the same area. I wouldn't give him anything lower than 81, to be honest. Bobek, for instance, didn't run even closely as much as Milutinović.

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 Jan 18, 21:15

I don't agree with you on that one. I think 80 is a good value for him. He would conserve his stamina through the game until he had to give his maximum in order to make crucial, match winner moves.

Bobek had to move more because of his playmaker role (not that he moved too much, but just more then Milutinović). Veselinović also moved more then Milutinović. He has 82 because he didn't train as hard as he could, so in some games he would have great durability, while in others he couldn't run too much (so I put him on par with Bobek who was constant but not too good in this area).

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby Rubedo » 2010 Jan 18, 22:39

I'm talking about running, not about moving. It's not the same to walk a mile and to run a mile. Milutinović dribbled far more than Bobek, and he did it at high speeds. Bobek's dribbles included almost no speed at all. He was more of a trickster, like, say, Zidane. He barely ran while dribbling. Milutinović was more of a consumer dribbler, like Best, or Maradona. Milutinović was also more aggressive at offense than Bobek. I think it was he who would end up using more energy.

It's also noticeable in the game. Milutinović loses his STA too early, even when he doesn't dribble much. You can't prevent a player from running a lot while he doesn't have the ball. Keep in mind his high AGG. He will use most of his STA thanks to it.

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 Jan 19, 08:48

I still think that if you restrict Milutinović's movement you can lower the Stamina loss, and even if he lose most of his Stamina in the 75-80th minute Mentality will make sure that his performances stay at solid level. Also, maybe Aggression should be lowered a bit and maybe that would solve that problem...

I've updated his Top Speed from 92 to 91 (C. Ronaldo's current level).

Bobek could be lowered in Stamina area (maybe 80)... Also, I'm thinking to lower Bobek's TS, ACC, DS and Aggression by 1-2 points, while increasing his passing stats... Any thoughts about that?

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby Rubedo » 2010 May 14, 03:58

I still don't find him unstoppable enough! :P

He's too weak, don't know why, but he is much more likely to lose a physical duel than Šekularac, for instance, and Šekularac has 76 for BB. :?

And I still find his STA too low. :P And he is still not agile enough. :P

I was thinking about 81 for BB, 82 for STA, 98 or maybe even 99 for AGI, and 90 or even high 80s for his TS. I would leave DA, DS, and TEC as they are. :P

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 May 14, 12:32

Why would you give him low yellow value for Balance if he (almost) never used force during his duels with defenders? This stats should make you play like he did in real life (without contact, using his speed, agility and dribbling). And even if I give him low yellow value for Balance, you'll return asking for high yellow number (right until you can own players like Stam in physical duels, because of his strength and speed). I don't think it should be our goal to make him unstoppable in that way.

About Stamina... I really don't know what you're doing with him during the match (maybe playing each and every attack with him), but he can hold up to 80th minute when I'm playing with Partizan 1946-1960 (or with Yugoslavia from same era). I think that the problem here might be high Mentality. If you want, try testing him with lower Mentality (something like 85).

About Agility... NO. You're playing on my emotions (and that's not nice thing to do ;) ), but I can't claim he should be on current Messi's level (98) (yes, I know Messi would still be more agile due to his height/weight).

Lowered TS from 91 to 90.

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby Rubedo » 2010 May 14, 14:08

Messi with 97 was far, far, far more twisty than Milutinović, and it would be the same thing with 98, probably even with 99. ;) The problem with STA is more about high AGG I'd say. Although, personally, for the gameplay's sake, I don't think I would give any player a number lower than 83, 82 minimum. :P

Plava Čigra wrote:...right until you can own players like Stam in physical duels...


Well, now, come to think of it... Image :P

I don't know where did you read that he played without contact. :? I highly doubt it was even possible with his sliding through the defence, especially at that era, when the defenders were more focused on breaking the attacker's (especially when it comes to an attacker of this level) legs than on the ball. :?

81 is the number I came after playing with the older version of him. That older version has 83 and seems fairly strong, difficult to take the ball from, and to be honest, aside from lower STA, I would actually say that the older version is better than this one, even if it has lower TS, ACC, AGI, DA, DS... :P

Remember that Bobek is on 82 and Vukas is on 84.

So, I chose 81 as a middle number between this version and older version. He will be strong, able to dribble past 3 or 4 defenders, just like he did in the real life, but still won't be able to push aside Stam or someone like that.

Not that I would have anything against raising his BB to Stam's level, of course. :P And let's be honest, neither would you. :P

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 May 14, 14:20

OK, I'll raise BB from 79 to 81, but if you come here again asking for a raise, I will crush you :lol:. I can accept your argument, since he sometimes did took a lot of beating without falling (although he almost never used force in duels, just his dribbling, agility and speed), but in most cases he tried to avoid contact during 1 on 1 duels.

Again, no to a higher Agility.

I think Mentality might be the problem, because it's sometimes causing him to get back deeper in order to try and help a bit defensively.

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby Rubedo » 2010 May 14, 14:41

Plava Čigra wrote:Again, no to a higher Agility.


In that case, what about lowering his height to, say, 165? :P

Or that doesn't fit the ladders? :P

Plava Čigra wrote:but if you come here again asking for a raise


Great! So, we agreed on 85, right? :P

Plava Čigra wrote:I think Mentality might be the problem, because it's sometimes causing him to get back deeper in order to try and help a bit defensively


It's possible, but wouldn't it then also be logical to lower his DEF?

I was actually thinking about that. I could see him getting 25, same as Šekularac, with even lower numbers being a possibility. Still, I would like to avoid lowering it to Bobek's level.

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Re: Miloš MILUTINOVIĆ | 1952-1958

Postby mytzner15 » 2012 Jul 30, 17:21

I would add: Dribbling

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