Garrincha | 1958-1962

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Garrincha | 1958-1962

Postby Uzair » 2008 Dec 10, 18:23

Nicknames: "The Little Bird" | "Alegria do Povo" ("Joy of the People") | "Anjo de Pernas Tortas" ("Angel with Bent Legs")

Club: Botafogo



Growth type: Standard/Lasting

INFO:

Spoiler: show
“The Little Bird” Garrincha is regarded as the greatest winger and one of the greatest dribblers the world has ever seen. Many eminent football historians in Brazil and around the world refer to him being at least the equal of Pelé , was rated by many as the second greatest Brazilian footballer of all-time. He grew up in poverty with high right leg 6 cm shorter than the left. Rather than shying away from soccer after a childhood illness left his right leg bowing inward while the left bowed outward, he developed a devastating body swerve that mocked his body’s special anatomy. As a right-winger, He was known for his remarkable ball control, imagination, acceleration, crossing, dribbling skills and ability to create something from nothing, He also possessed a ferocious shot with either foot and was a gifted dead ball specialist known for free kicks and corners taken with the outside of his foot, Garrincha’s best career highlight was happened in World Cup 1962 which he could fulfill Brazilian after Pele was out of tournament because of injury. For his all matches in World Cup, Brazil only lost one match with him on the pitch. He was voted 8th and 20th the greatest footballer of the century from IFFHS and World Soccer’s poll, respectively, was voted 6th the best player in world cup history by France Football.


HONOURS:

Club
Botafogo
Campeonato Carioca: 1957, 1961, 1962
Torneio Rio-São Paulo: 1962, 1964, 1966

Country
50 Caps 12 Goals
FIFA World Cup winner: 1958, 1962
O'Higgins Cup winner: 1955, 1959, 1961
Oswaldo Cruz Cup: 1958, 1961, 1962
Roca Cup: 1960

Individual
World Cup top scorer: 1962 (tied)
World Cup Player of the Tournament: 1962
World Soccer Player of the Year: 1962
Brazilian Football Museum Hall of Fame
World Cup All-Time Team: 1994
FIFA World Team of The Century: 1998


VIDEOS:

Spoiler: show




ADDITIONAL LINKS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrincha

http://www.planetworldcup.com/LEGENDS/garrinch.html

http://www.planetworldcup.com/LEGENDS/garrinch.html

http://www.soccerphile.com/soccerphile/ ... incha.html

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby prosser2k10 » 2009 Sep 19, 01:00

Classical wrote:Well, I saw some videos from him avaliable on youtube (which you probably have also seen) which display one or 2 well aimed free kicks. Of course 1 or 2 doesn't grant him the "90" rank but, at the same time, you can see from there he knew what he was doing. Alas, I think back in the days, Garrincha was the man to score free kicks after Didi.

This perception would make better than Cristiano Ronaldo, who by the way doesn't take free kicks in a solid intentional way of aiming, he makes that twisted curl with the front of his right foot and hope the effect betrays the goalkeeper, this aided by the good amount of strenght he puts on his free kicks.

Comparing to Figo, Figo knew how to aim and he had good technique but was not a master. He was solid good, developing this skill only after Real times, as he didn't score from free kicks neither in Sporting neither in Barcelona.

When possible, I will try to link the named videos in order to backup my toughts on this.

Thanks

I used them as a idea because there is no classic FK ladder (yet) but he no way deserves that high Classical mate you seem to know Brazilian players from this time (I've seen you around) but as do alot of people you're overrating him IMO he wasn't all that & today he wouldn't be anything because the speed would be too much it's already been discussed, he could stand still and do some dribbling & has a relatively good shot but he couldnt do everything as good as people think IMO put Quaresma back then an you have Garrincha. Jairzinho was a better player IMO and people don't understand how to make Garrincha IMO (but im not saying anybody is stupid with stats) banana kick = curve :?: no because as with trivela it doesn't happen its like giving Kerlon god region for heading IMO & the FK well goalie's where shit then (except a few great ones ofc) just hit the ball hard and with some curve and they where beaten, put Beckham's back then and they'd be quaking :lol: i dont see what the big rave of Garrincha is he wasn't hardworking i dont think. he was just Djalminha before our generation. BTW i dont mean to have a go at you or anything

Last edited by prosser2k10 on 2010 Mar 22, 22:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby Classical » 2009 Sep 22, 18:39

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJOGRWkWcIc at 2m03s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od6KVVCS ... re=related at 0m40s

Unfortunely I could not find anymore freekicks rather than these ones, and they are not enough to credit the suggested 90, I'll admit it for sure.

Nevertheless, and don't take I am only trying to increase this guy's stats, but what about shooting power? He has for sure a blasting shooting, with both feet let me add.

Comments? Anyway I think the stats are pretty fair as they emmulate a not hardworking gifted attacking player with his fair ammount of pace who could also shoot but was mainly deadly at dribbling.

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby prosser2k10 » 2009 Sep 22, 18:50

Classical wrote:Nevertheless, and don't take I am only trying to increase this guy's stats, but what about shooting power? He has for sure a blasting shot,

who do you put him with :?: here's the ladder
91: Totti, Cantona, Ruud Gullit (Age 25), Gunnar Gren, Malcom Mcdonald, Vava, Chilavert, Tony Yeboah

90: Pelé, Di Stefano, Zidane, Beckham, Passarella, Lampard, Bryan Robson, Boban, Carlos Alberto, Frank Rijkaard (Age 32), Deisler, Brehme, Drogba, Mark Hughes, Graeme Souness, Killy González, Stuart Pearce, Petit, Materazzi, Sol Campbell, Oliver Kahn

89: Kubala, Shevchenko, Littbarski, Bruno Conti, Davids, Preben Larsen, Emlyn Hughes, Kazimierz Deyna, Mark Viduka, Tacchinardi,

88: Cubillas, Les Ferdinand, Robbie Fowler, Duncan Fergunson, Blokhin, Uli Höness, Ruud Gullit (Age 33), Streltsov, Boniek (Age 26), Cubillas, Hugo Sanchez, Jay Jay Okocha, Dejan Savićević, Ginola, Salvatore Schillaci, Norman Whiteside, Dunga, Fernando Hierro, Matthias Sammer, Lev Yashin, Van der Sar, Pat Jennings

87: Thierry Henry (Age 26), Ronaldo (Age 27), Diego Tristan, Gianluca Vialli, Daniel Massaro, Giuseppe Signori, Mendieta, Paul Gascoinge, Deco (Age 23), Miguel Angel Nadal, Patrick Vieira, Luigi Di Biagio, , ,Pavel Snricek ,Ray Clemence

for me his 88 is ok he's 1 more than Deco, s what's your value Classical :?:

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby sencesor » 2009 Sep 22, 18:55

prosser2k9 wrote:IMO he wasnt all that and today he wouldnt be anything because the speed would be too much its already been discussed, he could stand still and do some dribbling and hi a relatively good shot but he couldnt do everything as good as people think IMO put Quaresma back then an you have Garrincha Jairzinho was a better player IMO and people dont understand how to make Garrincha IMO


As hard it is to understand it, I still disagree. :lol:

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby prosser2k10 » 2009 Sep 22, 18:57

Why :?: & do you have an opinion on SP :?:

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby sencesor » 2009 Sep 22, 19:28

Well first of all, I find that your comment about Quaresma 'schooling' Garrincha is a tad, how shall I put it, comic.. :)

Secondly, you're talking about a man that led Brazil to a world cup championship! (when Pele was soon injured & unable to play).

He still is (& always will be) one of the greatest football legends.


Regarding SP, don't have much to add about it, 88 seems fine.

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby prosser2k10 » 2009 Sep 22, 19:51

well i think quaresma could do what, Garrincha did but losing Pele wasnt a big blow to Brazil the side was more than Pele & Garrincha and its not a big world cup only 6 game's & Garrincha didnt even score in the group stage it was in the knockout round Garrincha is overrated to me there was also great players from then like Eusebio but didnt win the world cup so arent seen as 1 of the greatest ever, Garrincha is seen as that because he played for Brazil & dribbled well & won a world cup or 2 its wrong Best was better than him IMO but it isnt seen that way but my point the Brazil team would have won probably won the world cup wihout Garrincha & Pele his stats are fine for him & should be left alone but it wont happen :(

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby Classical » 2009 Sep 22, 20:21

About Garrincha quality I think there was so many discussion around that a true agreement will never come. My personal opinion? He is one of true greatest. I've been cruising all south america and it is unbeliavle how in Brasil there are so many who reckon Garrincha as the best ever (which means over Pele). I personally don't agree with that but still, Garrincha was ahead of his time in the dribbling mainly and in the gifted talent he had. Recent times speaking, and on a relative comparision (of course) I only saw Ronaldo (at Barcelona 96/97) and Maradona doing the kind of moves Garrincha did in a regular basis - passing trough all the opposition every game, every season (Ronaldo was only the 96/97 season with this kind of approach).

Anyway, like I said, his stats look fine to me.

Regarding the SP, well, with the ladder on it I'm positive sure he must sit under the ones with 91 but over the ones with 88 and probably 89. I like to be precise so I say that I think Garrincha could have a different value rather than 88. It could be 89 or 90.

PS: I was raised with a lot of info from old brasilian WCs and I got to see a lot of Jairzinho football. Like you said, he was far more complete than Garrincha (since he could play the winger or the striker role both with fair ease) but had not the magic talent Garrincha had. If I was a coach I would want Jairzinho maybe, as he was far more reliable and could play several positions but Garrincha did stuff Jairzinho would never do. Alas, attacking speaking, I would only reckon Jairzinho as a better header and goal instinct than Garrincha.

Thanks everyone

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby Classical » 2009 Oct 06, 22:47

Just going on with some nice vids from Garrincha, one that is not that well known may be this one, from the WC58 Final which saw Brazil winning 5-2 over Sweden.

Apart from the nice skill from Liedholm and amazing debut from 17 years old Pele, we actually manage to see some Garrincha action. Plese take a loot at the following:

1m08s: Nice dribble on the right side followed by sort of rebound assistance.

1m27s: Nice tempo for the dribble and...an actually skillful right foot cross (pay attention to the way he put his feet, full of itention to give it the desired swing). PS: Or is it a shooting? ;)

1m40s: Again nice dribble with an assistance well timed and deadly.

1m54s: This one is a classic, just a piece of lollypops, but a bit ahead of his own time.

2m17s: Again a classic take, the accuracy is somewhat difficult to realize but, again, the technique of that right foot is quite perceptable.


Hope this helps to continue improving this well balanced discussion.






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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby Rubedo » 2009 Dec 20, 12:18

98 for DA? Is his dribbling really good as Pele's?

I've seen his full games, and I wasn't really much impressed. He had more unsuccessful dribblings, after which he lost the ball, than the successful ones. And even those successful were more thanks to his agility and acceleration, than to his dribbling skills. I mean, yeah, sure, he had some nice moves, he was obviously a very good dribbler, even excellent, but on the level of Pele? No, definitely not.

Personally, I was more impressed with Edu, for example.

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby zguc » 2010 Mar 22, 18:58

I do not agree with today's earlier comments that the players do not seem to have in modern football, because with all the quality they possess that their conditions were still present as program preparation, nutrition and many other things that they were not imaginable even today, and this it is not enough .. would not be a lot of attractive goals today that are made special ball that is not practically possible to see, let alone defend, I do not know how to befallen modern players with the ball, which is weighing up to 5 kg in some circumstances, one would Garrincha modern day defenders not only crossed but buried in the earth that would not move ..

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby CDDRodrigo » 2010 Mar 22, 19:20

Rubedo wrote:Personally, I was more impressed with Edu, for example.


:shock:

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby Phil » 2010 Mar 22, 19:28

I have to agree that DA is overrated because even playing at such a low pace the ball does stray from him a lot more than it does with someone like Messi. Also my brain can't fathom how Garrincha and Maradona have such better agility ratings than Messi. I mean, Garrincha is certainly extremely agile and should be in the god region and is also a terrific dribbler but you just have to look at the videos on how tentatively the defenders try and tackle him, its laughably bad, as soon as he gets past them they just basically say it's your turn to tackle him now, then lethargically stroll back towards goal while he walks his way into the goal.

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby zguc » 2010 Mar 22, 19:29

This jerk had no one.. dribble to the right, I think DS it should be more than 86

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby Mwakka » 2010 Dec 05, 05:33

Is he really THIS good in front of goal? I seriously don't see him as better than Messi and some of the centre-forwards today.

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby Classical » 2010 Dec 21, 10:07

please don't continue to take down Garrincha's stats.

For all of you who don't know my logics, etc please refer to some old postings of mine right here on Garrincha's thread as I didn't feel like to write this - I have a logic, purpose and backup to do so.

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby Amaterasu » 2011 Nov 20, 15:45

I used this stats in PES 2012, and added the cards: "Speed Merchant" and "Agillity King".

And the result was perfect. He is exactly as Garrincha was in 1962 World Cup. He even moves like him own... it's scarring! Hold R1, and tap once the left stick to any direction: Garrincha bursts incredibly fast, and breaks trembling and frenetic his feet.

Thank you for this stats.

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby Pirata Almanega » 2011 Nov 26, 12:12

I do not believe in DS.

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby e-server » 2011 Nov 30, 16:55

Seriously, why would you give him DA 98 ? That is overrating him. Garrincha was a very good dribbler, not excellent. From what I have seen in the videos you have posted, he could beat one defender, very hardly could he beat two defenders, but he could not be three packed defenders. This means that, Messi, who routinely drbbles packed (3 or 4 T) defenders every game, is a much better dribbler. Plus, Garrincha control was not that impressive. It was not as close as Messi's or Maradona's. Garrincha deserves something orange for DA while Messi definitely deserves DA 98.
Also, I disagree with the fact that classic players are given sky high values that make them superior to modern days players. from I see in the videos (watched only the bottom 2), the tempo back then was too slow. Only the full-back was marking the winger. Garrincha has too much time to think of the dribble of he would execute. Nowadays,a full-back, DMF and a winger triple up on skillful wingers like Messi, Robben, Ribery or C.Ronaldo. I think Classic players should have their own ladder.
I am still trying to understand why Garrincha has 99 for agility.

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Re: GARRINCHA | 1958-1962

Postby Luisao82 » 2011 Dec 01, 08:33

Don't base your opinions on the available footage, because it's crappy and limited, not even shows 1/8 of his best plays (and the same goes for Pelé and some other Classic players).
Garrincha is probably the best dribbler of all times. And this comes from people who have seen him, and have already seen Maradona, Messi and all the others.
Some of the great dribblers of all time were from Garrincha's era. And he was the best of them all.

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