João Pereira

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João Pereira

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 09, 15:58

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby JMVP » 2010 Jun 07, 18:32

Prata wrote:I think comparing Tiago's technique to J.Pereira's technique, when the last time they played together was... 5 YEARS AGO is irrelevant here. João Pereira's first touch is good, better than Raul Meireles definely, IMO it is at the same level of Carlos Martins' one.
About BB, I can't see why do you think he doesn't deserve 81. He is one of the Strongest SBs in our league, very difficult to take down him in shoulder confrontations. BB is related too with Weight and Length. A player with BB 80 and Weight 80 and Lenght 80 is stronger than one with the same BB but with less weight and Lenght. That's why players like João Pereira have good balance values, ( an example is Miccoli whose BB is 84).
Now about his DA. I think 83 is a deserved value. He can control the ball very well in every situation . At high speed or pure dribbling skills. And is important to know that João Pereira shows that is very mature when is dribbling, he knows when and what to do, often than Coentrão And Hulk, WITHOUT losing the control of the ball.


It was just an example, they played together 5 years ago but they still play and i still watch both of them. Yes, he has a better touch than Meireles but not by far because your probably not taking into account the fact that Meireles plays in the middle were you need a better touch. In the middle you can get the ball from all angles and there's a lot more pressure. Guys like Gio or Zanetti were converted from the sidelines to the centre, they both had an good touch for a side back, that's (in part) why they can perform with quality in the middle.

I know that at least height influences balance, but i completely disagree with this statement: "He is one of the Strongest SBs in our league, very difficult to take down him in shoulder confrontations." If you had said he one of the strongest SB if you consider his frame, then i would agree. He isn't easy to take down but agility has an important effect here, he already has a very high value for agility and you can't really compare him to Micolli there, who not only is shorter but also stronger. JP is difficult to take down, how about him taking down others?

This is a bit cynical, but if he was that strong he wouldn't need to tackle a player who is next to the sideline and see a direct red card, he would have just pushed him out of the field. Because even if he had successfully tackled him the ball would still be out.

As for DA, you don't see Coentrão loosing the ball in a stupid fashion, in fact that's one of his strongest points. If he gets close to the corner flag he 1) wins a thrown in, 2) wins a corner or 3) successfully nutmegs his opponent and crosses :D
João Pereira is a fine dribbler for a SB. Hulk looses the ball due to sheer stupidity sometimes and because he has license to do it, not lack of skill. Dí Maria also lost loads of balls but that's ok because that's inherent to his role, he has the task of uneven the sides (same for Hulk), but no one is going to lower his DA just because of that, that's a completely different issue. I don't understand how you guys can defend that Hulk should have a lower DA value, that's beyond the realm of my understanding.

You see my concern here is not DA or technique or BB alone, it's the whole set and it's balance. I have a set for him with witch i think he plays realistically, you two probably have this set and you think it works well too so it's useless to discuss it any further, except for the possible addition of the SMF position, witch you haven't comented.

Anyway, thanks for the reply ;)

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby Kanouté » 2010 Nov 18, 00:27

forgive my curiousity but is he that good?

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby R0dDiCk » 2010 Nov 18, 00:51

Yeah, I personally think so. He's the best right SB in Portuguese league by far, great passing and dribbling skills, speed, and a very aggressive player.. maybe too much sometimes :P
He can do all the wing quite extraordinary, never stop running during the entire game. He's also not a bad defender at all, some good covering and tackling from time to time.

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby Kanouté » 2010 Nov 18, 08:11

thanks, I'll try to watch him from now on.

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby da_ni » 2010 Nov 18, 09:36

R0dDiCk wrote:Yeah, I personally think so. He's the best right SB in Portuguese league by far, great passing and dribbling skills, speed, and a very aggressive player.. maybe too much sometimes :P
He can do all the wing quite extraordinary, never stop running during the entire game. He's also not a bad defender at all, some good covering and tackling from time to time.

totally disagree... he definitly isn't the best SB by far in our league... I rate him among others like Fucile (just becouse he isn't going through a good form, i honestly don't think he is that poorly either), A. Pereira, and Coentrão.
If you ask me if his stats are acurate? i'll say no, becouse he really isn't that much better than the other SB in our league (currently, acording to the ladders, he is roughly 20 points ahead of Coentrão, and 50 points ahead A. Pereira, and 75 points ahead Fucile), that is very overrated in my book.

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby R0dDiCk » 2010 Nov 18, 10:58

da_ni wrote:
R0dDiCk wrote:Yeah, I personally think so. He's the best right SB in Portuguese league by far, great passing and dribbling skills, speed, and a very aggressive player.. maybe too much sometimes :P
He can do all the wing quite extraordinary, never stop running during the entire game. He's also not a bad defender at all, some good covering and tackling from time to time.

totally disagree... he definitly isn't the best SB by far in our league... I rate him among others like Fucile (just becouse he isn't going through a good form, i honestly don't think he is that poorly either), A. Pereira, and Coentrão.
If you ask me if his stats are acurate? i'll say no, becouse he really isn't that much better than the other SB in our league (currently, acording to the ladders, he is roughly 20 points ahead of Coentrão, and 50 points ahead A. Pereira, and 75 points ahead Fucile), that is very overrated in my book.


I said he was the best right SB, and yes, he's way better than Fucile, Maxi, Sílvio, etc. when he's fit and in top form, which happens to be right now, great exhibitions in SCP as a SMF and also delivering in Portugal's "new era", putting some pressure in Bosingwa's spot as he still struggles to get fit again.
Btw, which ladders did you saw ?

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby Luisao82 » 2010 Nov 18, 12:09

He isn't on his best form right now, but he's indeed the best Right Back in the portuguese league.

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby JMVP » 2010 Nov 18, 13:21

Right now he is the best on the right side, but i wouldn't say by far. Fucile on a good day can be just as good. I still think his stats are completely inaccurate though.

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby Luisao82 » 2010 Nov 18, 15:49

JMVP wrote:I still think his stats are completely inaccurate though.


Wow, that's a huge claim JMVP. Can you elaborate a bit please.

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby JMVP » 2010 Nov 18, 16:50

Luisao82 wrote:
JMVP wrote:I still think his stats are completely inaccurate though.


Wow, that's a huge claim JMVP. Can you elaborate a bit please.


I've elaborated on it... a bit, see above. Just look at his short pass stats and compare it to other SB's. SPS 82 why? Do you agree he's as fast as Coentrão or Álvaro Pereira? Has he got a quicker burst than Coentrão or has he got the same agility? And his BB ? Does he cross so much better than A. Pereira?
They're not completely inaccurate i exaggerated a bit, it's more like half the stats i agree with them the other half i don't.

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby R0dDiCk » 2010 Nov 18, 18:14

I think most of the stats are pretty accurate and represent him well in the game. I'll try to explain my point:
Attack » 76 - I think it's more than a fair value for him, putting him one point ahead of A. Pereira, which is totally fair, he's much more a attacked-minded player and I think his moves trough the wing are more effective, dangerous and consistent than Álvaro. On the other hand, Coentrão deserves also a 76 imo (75 atm)
Defense » 66 - No argues either, I already told that I think he's a pretty good and aggressive tackler, sometimes loses sense of positioning, but overall he's a decent defender. Once again puts him one point over Álvaro, and three under Coentrão, who is the best in terms of defensive skill, no doubt. Also two points under Maxi, so I think one more time no question about that value.
BB » 81 - Yeah, this is probably over the top, although I think it's understandable because with his size and weight (173/67) with a BB like Coentrão (179/72) - 76 - he would lose almost all the challenges, and I don't think that would be real at all. Looking at Evaldo (186/78) - 81 - , Abel (180/77) - 78 and Maxi (173/72) - 78, we see he needs a decrease. Looking at Maxi and Abel, I honestly think that J.Pereira can win more physical challenges then those guys, but Mentality sure can do his part, so I suggest 79.
Stamina » 90 - He can easily run 10/11kms per game but yeah, once again Mentality should do the rest, so with Álvaro and Coentrão at 87 and 83/82 Mentality, J.Pereira will have much more stamina in-game that those two, so there can be a drop in one or two points, although I find it hard to play all the 90 minutes with him on these values due to great amount of attacks that he performs. So, I'm not really sure on this ..
TS/ACC » 84/86 - More than fair values. Even when his not on top form he surely can burst some runs. Álvaro is also quicker and I think Coentrão is underrated, I have him with 86/86.
Response » 81 - Globally I think he is more intelligent and aware than Álvaro or Maxi (80), although 80 could also be a good value for him.
DA/DS » 83/84 - No question here for me. He's a great and consistent dribbler, and to prove my point on the speed, Álvaro (85) and Coentrão (84, which I think should be a 85 as someone proposed) are faster off and on the ball than him.
Passing » Probably just SPA needs a decrease to 77. He passes with great pace and timing, performing quality early crosses. He deserves to be two points under Peixoto and Coentrão (LPA83).
Shooting stats, FKA and Curling, Header and Jump seems fine.
Technique » 82 - Also one of his qualities, great first touches, but sometimes loses control of ball, so the gap to Coentrão (83) is fair, although once again imho he's underrated, I have him on 84, just below Nani for example.
Aggression » 86 - The gap to Coentrão is unfair, not sure if he's underrated or J.Pereira is overrated. But, if Álvaro have 85, 86 would be close to reality.
Mentality/TW » 86/83 - Excellent team player, clearly the best among the mentioned players. I also don't see him under Maxi in terms of Mentality, he never gives up on a challenge.

So that's my point guys, what do you think ?
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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby JMVP » 2010 Nov 18, 19:15

Attack » I'm ok with this, in fact he might be superior to Coentrão here in the way he gets into scoring/assists positions inside the box. But that's also becaus e Coentrão plays more on the sidelines and João goes inside more often.
Defense » no problems with this one either, consedering the forum's standards.

BB » he's a fighter doesn't mean he's strong. He isn't stronger than Coentrão and if they were to go on a shoulder to shoulder i'd still bet on Coentrão. Consider his agility here, with the same BB value he'll be better than Maxi in physical confrontations. Maxi sucks in terms of agility.

Stamina » hum... could stay that way but could be lower too. Coentrão and Álvaro are about the same as João in stamina, but Álvaro works less than those two, he is not so available as Coentrão or João, he is more the guy to make a run to the opposite end of the field but in midfield he is not the same as the other two.

TS/ACC » Imo Álvaro is the best in top speed, Coentrão the best in acceleration and João is just a mildly fast player, it just happens that he always gives his best. He runs as fast as he can, doesn't mean he can run very fast. But speed off the ball is not the problem.
Response » I don't think he's more intelligent than Maxi in anything. Doesn't mean he's worst either. Maxi was probably given that value because of his relative lack of speed, and to be fair i think that in defensive terms Maxi reads the game better.

DA/DS » I wouldn't say he's a good dribbler, he's just a good dribbler for a SB. He hardly risks anything special, and the sum of his DA, DS agility, BB and speed off the ball makes him a much better dribbler than he is in reality. I have Coentrão at 83, i used to have him at 85 but when i raised agility and speed i had to lower his DA. Now João is only 1 point short to Varela in DA, while DS, speed, agility and BB are pretty similar. Which means that João is supposed to have similar dribble skills to Varela. We know that's not true, don't we? Besides, regarding DS in particular i don't think he's very fast on the ball.
Passing » What needs a decrease more than anything it's his SPS, it's pure nonsense and it's the stats i dislike the most in this set. Timing of the passes as no relation to accuracy or speed, and to perform good early crosses one of the most important stats is swerve. I don't even think he's such a better crosser than Abel, what he does have is a better vision and like you said a better timing of when to release the ball. That's TW.

Technique » 82 - You think Coentrão is underrated? I don't, his first touch is nothing special. To compare him with Nani is blasphemy, Nani's first touch is much much better than Coentrão's. But i understand your point of view somehow, since here every decent SB is in the 75-79 range. What about just a 2 point difference to Vuk, do you agree with that?
Aggression » 86 - The problem, imo, it's not the gap to Coentrao. Like you said, with 90 stamina he still gets awfully tired in game. That's because of his agression + TW, he is always running back and forth, more so than in reality. He needs a yellow value, but not so much. I wouldn't call this overrated though, since i think such an agression value is bad.
Mentality/TW » 86/83 - First i don't see anyone above Maxi in mentality, he is perfect. About TW he is better than all of those, but that doesn't mean he needs an 83. Imo he plays very realistic with 80, but i've only given 76 to Coentrão. If you use all of PSD stats then 83 is fair.

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby R0dDiCk » 2010 Nov 18, 20:31

Yeah, Maxi sure have better defensive positioning and the value in response given to him is understandable, otherwise, with his low physical attributes, he would be just a mere spectator.
I also think that J.Pereira commits risks quite often, while trying to dribble in the defensive midfield, but I have to agree that he clearly doesn't have the same dribble skills that Varela possesses. Looking in the ladders for more than just SBs we see that if Moutinho have 82, C.Martins 81, I don't see the what's wrong with 83 in DA, honestly. Maybe just a decrease in Agility or DS by 1/2 points could replicate more precisely his real impact in the game. I don't have a concrete in Agility for him yet, probably 84 like Salomão...
In terms of technique, the 2 point range from Vuk is fair, since Vuk lacks consistency and other times he just don't gives a shit ^^.

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby da_ni » 2010 Nov 18, 20:53

Claim that J. Pereira is more offensive minded that A. Pereira? I agree with JMVP when he says that Coentrão and J. Pereira work more than A. pereira, thats a fact, but A. Pereira attack any chance he gets, many times going all the way to the finish line and do a back pass to the area... An Porto plays with wingers, and this is a SB, which means he goes further than them.
I disagree that J. Pereira is higher than both A. Pereira and Coentrão (Fucile also, i feel his last update was a bit too harsh on him, if before he was slightly overrated, now i feel he's slightly underrated).

And i also agree than his passing has to change. His passing make envy on a lot of CM playing in ou league currently. Do you really think he is this acurate?

And on agression, it's fair for J. Pereira to be one point ahead A. Pereira? Where?
86: J. Pereira;
85: A. Pereira;
82: Coentrão, Abel;
81: Fucile, Branco;
80: João Pinto. Does this seem right? it clearly doesn't.

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby Kanouté » 2010 Nov 18, 20:54

guys, how's your relationships with portuguese mods?

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby Luisao82 » 2010 Nov 19, 08:14

After reading thru your posts and judging by the way he's been playing lately these are my thoughts:


- ATTACK: agree with da_ni and disagree with JMVP and R0dDiCk here.
Coentrão's ability to get into scoring/assists positions inside the box is unparalleled in the portuguese league (if we're talking about SB's). And I don't think that J. Pereira's attacking intelligence is higher than A. Pereira's by any means. Besides, the higher attacking mindedness of J. Pereira is already reflected in his AGGRESSION value which is 1 pt higher than A. Pereira's.

- STAMINA: leave it untouched, but decrease his MENTALITY a bit.

- BALANCE: can be decreased, but only by 1 pt. Once again I don't agree with JMV here, J. Pereira is definitely stronger than Coentrão IMO, so if anything I'd just decrease J. Pereira's AGILITY by 1 pt, so that Coentrão can have the edge here (and I do believe that this is the most accurate tweak).

- SPEED STATS: are fine for now. I don't see any plausible reason to change it.

- DA: can be decrease by 1 pt. But I'm not sure about DS at the moment.

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby JMVP » 2010 Nov 19, 16:27

You can't feel the difference in agility with just one point, while irl i'm convinced we all agree that Coentrão is clearly more agile. Not much more agile, but the difference can be seen at first sight and that won't happen with just 1 point difference.
As for attack it can go either way, Coentrão gets unmarked also because of his speed while Rodinhas reads the game and knows when to go inside the box. Whatever, the difference isn't much anyway.
But i really, really doubt João can make Fábio fall more often than the other way around. João is more vicious, but he hasn't got better balance imo. Of course Fábio's agility also helps him stay on his feet, but even considering that i don't think he's stronger. I also think the heigh factor is being over valued, there's an impact but it's not as big as it is often referred.

But let's forget Fábio and compare him to Maxi. It obvious João is more skilled in almost every aspect except defence, but does he deserve to have his BB 2 points ahead Maxi when his agility and speed - decisive factors in physical tussles - are much higher? Have we not seen Maxi dribble past 1 or 2 players and get into a scoring position too? Yet DA alone is 7 points higher for João. Not considering speed, agility or balance. That's the same as saying the difference between Maxi's DA and João's is the same as the diference between João and... Iniesta. And Fucile omg how can the difference in DA be 4 points?! That's like saying the gap is the same as the gap between João and Aimar or Nasri. João is nowhere near a player like Gaintan in terms of DA or DS, but the difference is only 2 points in each stat. Is he better than Salomão, Alan (NO way) and Moutinho ?

It may seem as if i don't like Rodinhas, but it's nothing like that. I think he's good, very good indeed, but not this good.

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby Luisao82 » 2010 Nov 20, 02:06

JMVP wrote:You can't feel the difference in agility with just one point, while irl i'm convinced we all agree that Coentrão is clearly more agile. Not much more agile, but the difference can be seen at first sight and that won't happen with just 1 point difference.


TBH I don't think Coentrão is much more agile than J. Pereira. I think that Coentrão has undoubtedly quicker footwork and is a bit more agile, and that's it. But hey, I'm okey with 84 AGILITY (-2) for João... but less than that would be innacurate IMO.


JMVP wrote:As for attack it can go either way, Coentrão gets unmarked also because of his speed while Rodinhas reads the game and knows when to go inside the box. Whatever, the difference isn't much anyway.


J. Pereira has got his share of attacking instinct, but Coentrão has got a higher offensive ability. He's is a bit more intelligent in his forward runs, when he links with his attacking peers to do 1-2's and even when he unmarks himself.

JMVP wrote:But i really, really doubt João can make Fábio fall more often than the other way around. João is more vicious, but he hasn't got better balance imo. (...)


Again I don't agree with you. Coentrão can be more easily shrugged off the ball than J. Pereira. The H/W factor is also taken into account, like it or not. And remember that according to your suggestions, Coentrão deserves a convincing edge in terms of AGILITY.


JMVP wrote:Have we not seen Maxi dribble past 1 or 2 players and get into a scoring position too? Yet DA alone is 7 points higher for João. Not considering speed, agility or balance. (...) João is nowhere near a player like Gaitan in terms of DA or DS, but the difference is only 2 points in each stat. Is he better than Salomão, Alan (NO way) and Moutinho ?


As for Maxi, Gaitan, Salomão, Alan and Moutinho I think their values should be reviewed and discussed as well, instead of decreasing almost every single stat in J. Pereira.

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby da_ni » 2010 Nov 20, 06:58

Luisao82 wrote:
JMVP wrote:You can't feel the difference in agility with just one point, while irl i'm convinced we all agree that Coentrão is clearly more agile. Not much more agile, but the difference can be seen at first sight and that won't happen with just 1 point difference.


TBH I don't think Coentrão is much more agile than J. Pereira. I think that Coentrão has undoubtedly quicker footwork and is a bit more agile, and that's it. But hey, I'm okey with 84 AGILITY (-2) for João... but less than that would be innacurate IMO.


JMVP wrote:As for attack it can go either way, Coentrão gets unmarked also because of his speed while Rodinhas reads the game and knows when to go inside the box. Whatever, the difference isn't much anyway.


Coentrão is a bit more intelligent in his forward runs and even when he links with his attacking peers to do 1-2's or when he unmarks himself.

JMVP wrote:But i really, really doubt João can make Fábio fall more often than the other way around. João is more vicious, but he hasn't got better balance imo. (...)


Again I don't agree with you. Coentrão can be more easily shrugged off the ball than J. Pereira. The H/W factor is taken into account, like it or not. And remember that according to your suggestions, Coentrão deserves a convincing edge in terms of AGILITY.


JMVP wrote:Have we not seen Maxi dribble past 1 or 2 players and get into a scoring position too? Yet DA alone is 7 points higher for João. Not considering speed, agility or balance. (...) João is nowhere near a player like Gaitan in terms of DA or DS, but the difference is only 2 points in each stat. Is he better than Salomão, Alan (NO way) and Moutinho ?


As for Maxi, Gaitan, Salomão, Alan and Moutinho I think their values should be reviewed and discussed as well, instead of decreasing almost every single stat in J. Pereira.


But i actually think that most of his stats could come down one or 2 points...
Attack: -1
BB: -1
Sta: -2
Acc: -2
Res: -1
Agi: -2
DA: -1
DS: -1
SPS: -1?
Agg: -3
Ment.: -1
TW: -3

How is J. Pereira 3 points ahead in TW than Maxi? he is probably the most inteligent defender in our league, J. Pereira and Fucile are driven more by their heart than by their brains, they act first and think later, which isn't so much the case in Maxi. Both J. Pereira as Fucile are more prone to make fatal mistakes that compromise their teams than Maxi, even though they helpe more in attack, and are more complete, Maxi doesn't oscilate so much in terms of form and performances.

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Re: João PEREIRA

Postby Luisao82 » 2010 Nov 20, 07:18

Attack: -1 (works for me)

BB: -1 [acceptable.. I was just arguing that there's no way he deserves less (or even equal) BB than Coentrão]

Sta: -2 (I don't agree with you here... I'd prefer a considerable decrease in MENT, I don't think a player like J. Pereira can lose that amount of STAMINA in so little time)

Acc: -2 (why?)

Res: -1 (I have no idea)

Agi: -2 (acceptable)

DA: -1 (acceptable)

DS: -1 (not sure, but I guess it's acceptable as well)

SPS: -1? (I have no idea)

Agg: -3 (maybe a -2 decrease would be more accurate)

Ment.: -1 (maybe a -3 decrease would be more accurate)

TW: -3 (acceptable)

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