CLASSIC SECTION RULES

Moderators: Korinov, Epsi, Adrien, ingus, Brezza, frshmn, Albo7

CLASSIC SECTION RULES

Postby Brezza » 2010 Jan 08, 19:25

- We will be putting far more scrutiny into approving players stats from now on. Once new players are allowed to be created again they must follow the new template format and include videos and/or some explanations about the players behavior especially for less known players. If you just post a set of numbers with little or no explanation or something copied of Wiki your stats will more than likely wont be approved. I know some players are already like this, hence the updating phase ... check these examples for what should be required:

40-s/stanley-matthews-1947-1957-t2655.html
60-s/milan-gali-1960-1966-t8613.html

- Of course there aren't always videos but if you read about a player that means there has to be some text somewhere that's what we want to see key info's and arguments from what the stats where deduced . The goal is to post arguments and info at the same time, in order to justify your stats and share at least some of the knowledge about the player you've posted. For example, if , Plava Čigra posted everything he knew about Stjepan Bobek it would take 20-30 pages to sum up all that. Instead of that he posted just the most vital info, and arguments so people can understand his stats.

- We should really just focus on players that make part of all star/era team from now on and the most important players. Please refrain from making stats for virtually unknown players unless you provide sufficient information and if they are needed for an all star team. I believe we already have a the majority of the best players from the less known early 20th Century players for example.

- I know that there are quite a large number of dubious stats for before 50's players in particular so it is likely that a list of these players will be looked at and decided upon whether they should be updated or worth keeping altogether. Deleting them is the last resort however, Like Nightcaller said in the Mod section We should try to, in time, improve those stats and make them look as real as we can achieve, because I think classic section would lost a lot if we delete stats for those pioneers of football.

Thanks for your time ;)

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Re: NEW CLASSIC SECTION RULES (read or GTFO :P)

Postby Fevernova » 2010 Jan 14, 14:26

Yep, I think it´s a titanic task, ´cause eve if we notify every single update we make, there are hundreds of players made by users who don't post regularly, they connect, make some changes and goodbye. Who'd keep track of those?...really hard, really.

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Re: NEW CLASSIC SECTION RULES (read or GTFO :P)

Postby Alcohomicide » 2010 Jan 14, 15:02

Even making things 1% better is making them better. For now I think just fixing a few of the better known players -then- doing some ladders would be good. We have plenty of players who need fixing so maybe when there's a few teams who feel really good and realistic we should do some more ladders. ;)

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Re: NEW CLASSIC SECTION RULES (read or GTFO :P)

Postby Kempie » 2010 Jan 14, 18:24

Plava Čigra wrote:Well, are you applying to make all those ladders? :mrgreen:

***

Nice suggestion(s), but we are aware of that. :)

With all due respect to you mate, that is one of the hardest tasks to do (I would be very thankful to anybody who would even try to do the task :) ). Classic section has over 2200 players and stats are updating on the daily basis.


I never said it would be an easy task ;)

Obviously there are loads of players, but I don't think the ladders need to be exhaustive at all. Even if they only cover the most well-known players, that's still a lot better than nothing and gives a reference point when trying to rate the less well-known players much more easily.

Creating a complete ladder from scratch I would also imagine is a bit of a nightmare, so if some players are going to be reviewed/fixed anyway now, why not add them to the ladders as they are reviewed? Might make things easier and it doesn't really make sense to add players to a ladder before they are fixed as you'd then have to update the ladder again.

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Re: NEW CLASSIC SECTION RULES (read or GTFO :P)

Postby DeFrenZ » 2010 Jan 14, 21:05

why, comparing the players on the already existing non-classical ladders would be so bad?

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Re: NEW CLASSIC SECTION RULES (read or GTFO :P)

Postby Brezza » 2010 Jan 16, 00:54

Kempie wrote:I agree this is a good idea - most of the classic players (certainly the most well known ones) have already been created now, but some of the stats are maybe a bit dubious. I don't think the balance between quantity and quality is right at the moment but this should definitely help.

I think more developed classics ladders would be a good thing - there isn't much in the way of ladders at the moment.

Ladders-wise, I'd suggest something like:
- Group all the pre-50's classic players together as these are all difficult to rate accurately (lack of video footage in particular).
- Group 50's and 60's players together for same reason (although more video footage available).
- Have separate ladders for remaining decades.


*Cough* Diety if your reading this.. *Cough*

Ive already tried basing ladders over individual eras its just too much work for one person really. If I do it in the Its probably better to make/update them after more updates or I'll have to constantly update them.


Also, should there be a new category for the 'noughties', as were now in 2010?


There already is one for the noughties or did you mean the tenties/teenties or whatever its going to be called?

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Re: NEW CLASSIC SECTION RULES (read or GTFO :P)

Postby deity86 » 2010 Jan 17, 12:07

Brezza wrote:
Kempie wrote:I agree this is a good idea - most of the classic players (certainly the most well known ones) have already been created now, but some of the stats are maybe a bit dubious. I don't think the balance between quantity and quality is right at the moment but this should definitely help.

I think more developed classics ladders would be a good thing - there isn't much in the way of ladders at the moment.

Ladders-wise, I'd suggest something like:
- Group all the pre-50's classic players together as these are all difficult to rate accurately (lack of video footage in particular).
- Group 50's and 60's players together for same reason (although more video footage available).
- Have separate ladders for remaining decades.


*Cough* Diety if your reading this.. *Cough*

Ive already tried basing ladders over individual eras its just too much work for one person really. If I do it in the Its probably better to make/update them after more updates or I'll have to constantly update them.


Also, should there be a new category for the 'noughties', as were now in 2010?


There already is one for the noughties or did you mean the tenties/teenties or whatever its going to be called?
Diety? Do you think my bum looks big in this? :cry:

Strangely I just started looking into getting some classic stats down before checking this thread. It may be a long process (certainly for more modern eras) but I don't mind giving it a shot as long as it doesn't interfere with my other ladder "duties". If you give a guideline on exactly what you want i.e. if you want any particular eras combined like Kempie said then let me know and I can go from there. The one thing I would like to state though is that I'd have no interest/time in keeping them updated after they're up, I know for a fact it'd be too much work on top of the other ladders I do which to be perfectly honest, are my main priority.

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Re: NEW CLASSIC SECTION RULES

Postby dimonspa » 2010 Jun 16, 19:55

Brezza wrote:Discussed in the Mod Section:

- I know that there are quite a large number of dubious stats for before 50's players in particular so it is likely that a list of these players will be looked at and decided upon whether they should be updated or worth keeping altogether. Deleting them is the last resort however, Like Nightcaller said in the Mod section We should try to, in time, improve those stats and make them look as real as we can achieve, because I think classic section would lost a lot if we delete stats for those pioneers of football.



Modern footballers have much more complete complex gaming skills and qualities than football players of the past. And if many of our yesterday's football games have each coryphaeuses of one its ability, which he did wonders, many of them had almost empty their gaming education. Now skill has become much more diversified, by volume. Rose and General complex gaming skills, psychological and abilities. But this has its disadvantages. If the player is solely upon his best acquisition, would capture them perfectly. If over a complex techniques, some of their best will fall behind. I therefore believe that modern sports are far more great endurance and fast decision-making team and gaming solutions than the past. But football past much more beautiful is technical and is said to be romantic.

Do not delete anything. Stats can be discussed, and each shall have the right to make changes or listen to any opinion. Football is a rich history of personalities, I don't think many here are accidentally. You can enter the system of estimates for an established player, people who have seen and transfer it in the game may expose the assessment for the accuracy of stats.

For example Vsevolod BOBROV from kevanos - 10 points, like with TV and on the PES.

With respect, from Belarus ;)

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Re: NEW CLASSIC SECTION RULES

Postby Classical » 2010 Jun 16, 21:49

What a marvelous post, dear dimonspa.

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Re: NEW CLASSIC SECTION RULES

Postby Albo7 » 2010 Nov 25, 14:05

I think it's time to remove this pointless freezing and to vote for some new guy as a mod of the Classic section, as it's been 2 months since the last time a Classic player was touched (not as if the classics were getting updated with pace earlier then 2 months ago).

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Re: NEW CLASSIC SECTION RULES

Postby Brezza » 2010 Nov 25, 17:06

Like I said in the mod section:

i'll be back posting full time again once I finish all of my 1st semester coursework by the end of this week. Plava sent me a pm a while ago saying he was taking an extended break but he sounded that it was unlikely he was coming back. :( I could use the help once I start posting again, I've already declared a couple of candidates that I believe would be good extra classic mod choices in the mod section.

I wouldn't be against allowing new players being posted again under strict regulations off course, especially if it helps bring new life and interest back into the forum. Its a shame that great teams like Ajax and Bayern Munich from the 70's still have alot of players missing for example. Its not my sole decision though

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Re: NEW CLASSIC SECTION RULES

Postby julgui » 2010 Nov 25, 17:22

First life after PSD. It is true that we all love the classic section, but no longer an amusement.

Brezza quiet, I'll be waiting ;)

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Re: NEW CLASSIC SECTION RULES

Postby Albo7 » 2010 Nov 25, 19:54

Brezza wrote:I wouldn't be against allowing new players being posted again under strict regulations off course, especially if it helps bring new life and interest back into the forum. Its a shame that great teams like Ajax and Bayern Munich from the 70's still have alot of players missing for example. Its not my sole decision though


Well, I got players ready to be posted, 10 times more accurate then 3/4 of the posted players, I've translated shit from italian, turkish, etc sites, I've seen my fathers old VHC tapes (20-25 years old?), to create the albanian players I'm interested as accurate as possible, so I think it would be disrespectful towards me as a member not to post those sets in here while you can see ridiculous things, such as these threads:

viewtopic.php?f=184&t=11782
viewtopic.php?f=184&t=11813

The albanian players I want to post are not the only problem, the real problem are the overflowing threads with players that nobody knows and cares to update with the forum rules and according to ladders, if not according to ladders, even by comparing them with some players. I think that we should consider deleting quite some non useful Classic threads, to replace em with threads of players of Classic teams.

Brezza wrote:i'll be back posting full time again once I finish all of my 1st semester coursework by the end of this week.


I hope this comeback wont be like your last comebacks where you post in some Man. Utd modern threads and then disapear. If you are too busy with school and real life you might as well give up man. The truth is that you've been in-existent since you finished your last term of school (May??), and it's not as if I want to bitch or complain, or anything, but this is the simple truth, right?

Brezza wrote: Plava sent me a pm a while ago saying he was taking an extended break but he sounded that it was unlikely he was coming back. :( I could use the help once I start posting again, I've already declared a couple of candidates that I believe would be good extra classic mod choices in the mod section.


Plava Cigra has quit. He couldn't stand anymore members disrespecting his work and dissing the classic players even though they wouldn't give a single argument about what was the problem with the updated players.

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Re: NEW CLASSIC SECTION RULES

Postby Albo7 » 2010 Nov 28, 23:00

Now that you're officially back Brezza, can you give me an opinion about my suggestions about the classic section?

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Re: NEW CLASSIC SECTION RULES

Postby Brezza » 2010 Nov 28, 23:52

Ok mate I'll PM Nrby about maybe opening the forum up again. They better be worth it though :D

Despite updating about three leagues worth of players since the closure that's still only about 20% of the whole forum, so of course still some dodgy threads cluttered here and there . We thought deleting threads as a last resort if there was any chance of improving them but its a pretty impossible task for those unknown African greats (?) you mentioned for example so they were ignored.

Probably a new thread should be made where people can post lists of un-updated players and see whether they still belong on the forum or not.

Yeah my studies were a major part of me taking a break, there's no way I was going to affect my possible future career ( and new Uni social life 8-) ) over an internet forum tbh. Also I was pretty drained after doing this for two/three years and started to loose interest in PES altogether, ( Cry me a rivaaah! ) I quite like the new game though so I should be back for good hopefully.

Sad to hear Plava's left, he pm'd me his thoughts before doing so and I don't really blame him tbh. Unfortunately the trolls finally got to him it seems, he should be commended for the amount of work he put into this forum.

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Re: BACK OPEN!

Postby Brezza » 2010 Dec 11, 22:34

Ok guys after nearly a year of being frozen and hundreds of players being updated, the classics section is now back open and allowing new sets under strict regulations.

Updating players will still be the main priority so only the most important and well researched players will be considered. Don't expect a flood of players to be approved at once.
Details for the correct standards im looking for in all new threads are in the first post of this thread.

Additionally I'm partial to deleting quite a few existing players that look overatted and will be virtually impossible to update in the future due to little information on them.

Merry Christmas.

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Re: BACK OPEN!

Postby BigStu » 2010 Dec 12, 09:31

good, I think Ill had a couiple of sets to post up at one point, i remember having a Euro 2008 era Schweinsteiger.....

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Re: BACK OPEN!

Postby ingus » 2010 Dec 12, 12:31

BigStu wrote:good, I think Ill had a couiple of sets to post up at one point, i remember having a Euro 2008 era Schweinsteiger.....


could you fix up some of your earlier sets from the era teams? like barca/chelsea etc

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Re: CLASSIC SECTION RULES

Postby Brezza » 2011 Jun 13, 17:16

Bump. With a better thread title.

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Re: CLASSIC SECTION RULES

Postby Fevernova » 2011 Jun 13, 17:51

anything new? Brezza ;)

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Re: CLASSIC SECTION RULES

Postby Brezza » 2011 Jun 13, 18:33

hmm..Seeing as I will probably close the update thread I'd like it if people posted the exact changes they made to their players in their thread until they are synced to the new site.

I guess adding growth type to players ins't that important anymore either as its not part of the new editor.

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