The Speed Merchants (!)

[Kanouté]

Well, now here's an important (imo) work to do in the hand. Which players should get the new S14 Speed Merchant card?
Maybe the name of it sounds like we should give it to only fast players but it's not that. This card should be given to agile players who is able to do very quick body turns in real as the card's explanation suggests. I think that it's important because it's sth like the dribbling styles (type 1,2,3,4) in the game that represent a player's way of dribbling for the realism of the game. For a start:

the players who are given this card in default database;

arshavin (true)
wright-phillips (haven't any idea)
krasic (true)
alexis sanchez (true)
piatti (true)
messi (true)
villa (haven't any idea)
ronaldo (true)
diego capel (haven't any idea)
ribery (true)
robben (true)
elia (true)
donovan (haven't any idea)
tamada (hai)
m. moralez (hai)
s. blanco (hai)

in addition to them;

adam johnson
robinho
iniesta

are the players who's come to my mind as candidates for the card first.

these are my thoughts. so let's see your opinions, please. it'd be great to get everybody's contribution for this important work.

[jurgens]

I totally agree with you Jurgens! This card makes it so ridiculously easy to go on crazy runs through all defenders, turning speed is absurd! I tried it with Gotze and he feels better at dribbling than someone with 90 DA who does not have the card!!! So this card should prbably be given to those players that can go on runs beating multiple defenders with pure agility and DA CONSISTENTLY! Ex. Messi, Robben, Cruyff, Milutinovic, Maradona, etc..
At the same time however, I dont think they would make a card that only a very limited list of players should have...

Yes I agree with Jurgens too but they are some players that actually MAKE these kind of runs and are not so known as messi, Robben.... For example Khalatbari from Iran(probably Iran's best player at the moment, he has excellent dribbling) [ wich really dribbles like that and make at the same time VERY quick turns you can check it on many videos
Plus I have tried him many times in the game to make sure he deserves it and he does really play like real with it...
My point is not only these kind of big players should have this card like Robben or Messi, others can have it but it needs to be well analysed if the player deserve it or not

yes there are a few players other than messi and robben who deserves it. that player may well be one of them. Like you said they need to be carefully analysed to see if they deserve it or not.

personaly.. I have removed the card from all players on my of. The card is imbalanced, and if you play smart.. you are literally untouchable. Its already easy to dribble players in pes 2011 if you play well... this card is like using the best dribbling that has ever existed in pes.. while everyone esle moves so slow in comparison to the other games

Agree with you. Probably next step is Messi and Ronaldo with 97 and 95 in attack

Besides someone with 85 DA could never have this card..

What do you mean by that?

85 is was a bit of an exaggeration but.. I meant when a player has this card, he keeps the ball so close to his feet he basically has 99 DA. The accuracy is absolutely perfect at all times. As such I believe it should be reserved for the truly elite dribblers in the world.

[Kanouté]

I think people must read this.

S 14 is the most unrealistic thing they have ever added. it doesn't replicate ronaldo and it doesn't replicate di maria. it makes both turn like they could never do in reality.. the dribbling is so much closer too, completly unrealistic, espically for ronaldo. lower agility doesn't make any differnce, when the sprint button is held down the cards own agility value is applied... which basically goes beyond that of the 99 barrier.

Does everyone know that seabass has said in interviews that this card was made soley for messi? It was made specifically for messi and the rest of the devolpment team said it was a waste to be on only one player, so they handed it out to some random players who are quick at turning. Without realizing how dumb and unrealistic it is. It was supposed to be a model bound style like they used to have back in pes 3 for zidane and figo etc.

Does it make sense for a player of ronaldos size to move as agile as Messi? Cause thats exactly what its doing. That card = Messi. This card on anyone = Messi. Thats what the card is. It should be called S-14 Messi dribbling replication card cause that is exactly what it was intended to be and exactly what it is.

I get what your saying with how they run without the card. But thats always how its been... s 14 was a step in teh right direction.. But theres no levels to it. You either dribble like everyone esle.. or you dribble like god. And the fact that the close control is changed to something beyond 99 DA makes it completly unrealistic for everyone. They needed to design it with diffent levels and turning speed and accuracies. Giving it to one player just because it makes them move better isn't right, it makes them move far better than they ever could in reality. Its like jumping from sonic the hedgehog to mario universe... thats the diffence between a player with the card and without the card. They dont even move like they're from the same game.

[Sluts ride me]

I think people must read this.

S 14 is the most unrealistic thing they have ever added. it doesn't replicate ronaldo and it doesn't replicate di maria. it makes both turn like they could never do in reality.. the dribbling is so much closer too, completly unrealistic, espically for ronaldo. lower agility doesn't make any differnce, when the sprint button is held down the cards own agility value is applied... which basically goes beyond that of the 99 barrier.

Does everyone know that seabass has said in interviews that this card was made soley for messi? It was made specifically for messi and the rest of the devolpment team said it was a waste to be on only one player, so they handed it out to some random players who are quick at turning. Without realizing how dumb and unrealistic it is. It was supposed to be a model bound style like they used to have back in pes 3 for zidane and figo etc.

Does it make sense for a player of ronaldos size to move as agile as Messi? Cause thats exactly what its doing. That card = Messi. This card on anyone = Messi. Thats what the card is. It should be called S-14 Messi dribbling replication card cause that is exactly what it was intended to be and exactly what it is.

I get what your saying with how they run without the card. But thats always how its been... s 14 was a step in teh right direction.. But theres no levels to it. You either dribble like everyone esle.. or you dribble like god. And the fact that the close control is changed to something beyond 99 DA makes it completly unrealistic for everyone. They needed to design it with diffent levels and turning speed and accuracies. Giving it to one player just because it makes them move better isn't right, it makes them move far better than they ever could in reality. Its like jumping from sonic the hedgehog to mario universe... thats the diffence between a player with the card and without the card. They dont even move like they're from the same game.

What about Robben, his dribbling is very nimble too.

[Anders]

IMO this tread was already receiving a lot of replies, I think everyone has is opinion about that and knows how the card work, I propose a poll:

1 - Just Messi deserve and remove the card from everyone (Not counting the Classics)
2 - Give to player that will play more realistic with that card but just a few ones (Examples: Sanchez and Robben)
3 - Use the same system that we are using, giving the card to any AGI player.
And don't matter the one that won, the S - 14 could stay as option as I'm 100 % sure that will be peoples that going to like play with C. Ronaldo or Iniesta with that Card.
Well I hope that this idea goes forward as I think very unfair the way that we are rating the player, just compare Ronaldinho or Cassano with any player that has this Card.

[PES]

I only play pes with friends and we decided to remove the Speed Merchant card from all players. It makes it way too easy to run through the whole defence and no real player is good enough to be able to make plays like that consistently as this card allows you to.

[Luisao82]

Messi fully deserves this card, and I don't think it's so overpowered as you saying. I play with some guys who know how to dribble, but even when they play with Messi it's definitely not easy for any of them to run thru my defence. Maybe you have to improve your defensive skills a bit.

[adieet]

-Edit- No response. I'll make it simple.

It is believed no one worth having this card....
Make it forbidden ?
At least it could be useful if you're playing BAL mode....

[prduggan2]

Villa is a speed merchant, he stays on the last defender riding the offsides line waiting for a threw ball and when it comes theres no stopping him as we saw with his two goals against real madrid and the goal in the first leg against arsenal. Plus Javier Hernandez is a speed merchant, he plays similarly to villa , but younger and is probably more complete than villa or will be.

[Fixer]

Villa is a speed merchant, he stays on the last defender riding the offsides line waiting for a threw ball and when it comes theres no stopping him as we saw with his two goals against real madrid and the goal in the first leg against arsenal. Plus Javier Hernandez is a speed merchant, he plays similarly to villa , but younger and is probably more complete than villa or will be.

How Is Chicharito more 'complete' than Villa?
Btw you're mistaking Speed Merchant with Goal Poacher

[Kruger13]

I had listened that S-14 Speed Merchant was going to be removed from almost all players except from Messi (even Messi looks unrealistic with it, but is the "most accurated" with it), and i also listened and read that many Mods have some problems removing cards from players

IMO this tread was already receiving a lot of replies, I think everyone has is opinion about that and knows how the card work, I propose a poll:

1 - Just Messi deserve and remove the card from everyone (Not counting the Classics)
2 - Give to player that will play more realistic with that card but just a few ones (Examples: Sanchez and Robben)
3 - Use the same system that we are using, giving the card to any AGI player.
And don't matter the one that won, the S - 14 could stay as option as I'm 100 % sure that will be peoples that going to like play with C. Ronaldo or Iniesta with that Card.
Well I hope that this idea goes forward as I think very unfair the way that we are rating the player, just compare Ronaldinho or Cassano with any player that has this Card.

I like you idea and im with you on that, and i hope that in Pes2012 that card doesnt work in the same form that in Pes2011!

[joselitos]

For you have removed the card S - 14 Messi and now this player has lost all real was in the game, now it seems otherwise. I see nothing just removing the card.

[Kruger13]

Actually, if Messi doesn't have S-14 Speed Merchant, i believe that nobody deserves specially in the game Pes2011, we have to wait until Pes2012 and see the influence of this card, i expect they (konami) fix this card.

[joselitos]

For me I think that Messi deserves this letter, any football fan to see Messi parties can not deny

[Albo7]

He's a total party animal, isn't him...

[Vickingo]

Maxi Moralez has this card? :S

[joselitos]

There are many players with that card S14, a fortiori do not understand why Messi has been taken away.

Who decides these things? I ask because I'm new and not yet know how this works, if done by a vote or discussed openly?

An example
Luis Garcia with PSD/Player.php?Id=3646&Club=673 S14

[Albo7]

Chill down, nobody will have S14 anymore. We all came in the conclusion that it's unfair for any player, modern or classic, to have it. Any player who still has that card, is outdated, and will get it removed asap.

[Drev]

Neymar need speed merchant, he has.. 93 agility / 91 Dribble Speed.

[Drev]

And.. if it is true that they have speed merchant, why not add in the database?

[BigStu]

because our aim is to make realistic stats, speed merchant ruins realism