The Speed Merchants (!)

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The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby Kanouté » 2010 Nov 10, 15:19

Well, now here's an important (imo) work to do in the hand. Which players should get the new S14 Speed Merchant card?
Maybe the name of it sounds like we should give it to only fast players but it's not that. This card should be given to agile players who is able to do very quick body turns in real as the card's explanation suggests. I think that it's important because it's sth like the dribbling styles (type 1,2,3,4) in the game that represent a player's way of dribbling for the realism of the game. For a start:

the players who are given this card in default database;

arshavin (true)
wright-phillips (haven't any idea)
krasic (true)
alexis sanchez (true)
piatti (true)
messi (true)
villa (haven't any idea)
ronaldo (true)
diego capel (haven't any idea)
ribery (true)
robben (true)
elia (true)
donovan (haven't any idea)
tamada (hai)
m. moralez (hai)
s. blanco (hai)

in addition to them;

adam johnson
robinho
iniesta

are the players who's come to my mind as candidates for the card first.

these are my thoughts. so let's see your opinions, please. it'd be great to get everybody's contribution for this important work. :)

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby bssm » 2010 Nov 10, 15:34

I need to test this more but based on what i have seen and the players already listed.

Aaron Lennon
Munian(maybe a bit early)
Navas
Nani
David Silva?
Modric?

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby Kanouté » 2010 Nov 10, 18:35

lennon
navas
nani
silva

are ok to me. not sure about modric and muniain.

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby Uzair » 2010 Nov 10, 19:23

Das ist das! wrote:Well, now here's an important (imo) work to do in the hand. Which players should get the new S14 Speed Merchant card?
Maybe the name of it sounds like we should give it to only fast players but it's not that. This card should be given to agile players who is able to do very quick body turns in real as the card's explanation suggests. I think that it's important because it's sth like the dribbling styles (type 1,2,3,4) in the game that represent a player's way of dribbling for the realism of the game. For a start:

the players who are given this card in default database;

arshavin (true)
wright-phillips (haven't any idea)
krasic (true)
alexis sanchez (true)
piatti (true)
messi (true)
villa (haven't any idea)
ronaldo (true)
diego capel (haven't any idea)
ribery (true)
robben (true)
elia (true)
donovan (haven't any idea)
tamada (hai)
m. moralez (hai)
s. blanco (hai)

in addition to them;

adam johnson
robinho
iniesta

are the players who's come to my mind as candidates for the card first.

these are my thoughts. so let's see your opinions, please. it'd be great to get everybody's contribution for this important work. :)


i agree with you for the most part.

i don't really know where to begin so i'm gonna start with premier league as i get to watch those players on a more regular basis. players who deserve it:

Arshavin
Nasri (?) - unsure as his dribbling movements aren't as fluid as the card would make them
Rosicky (?) - same as above
Kakuta
Pienaar (?)
Adam Johnson
David Silva (?)
Nani (?)
Ben Arfa
G. Dos Santos
Aaron Lennon

that's my opinion on premier league.

i'll put my opinions on other leagues soon ;)

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby jurgens » 2010 Nov 11, 05:41

I wanna say a few things about this card.

This card is EXTREMLY OVERPOWERED. It totally changes how players dribble when r1 is used. Usually when players run with the ball holding down r1.. they will need to wait to turn, basically while they press r1 and run there is a set time before they are able to turn. With this card that set time seems to be pretty much eliminated.

If a player has the speed merchant card, he can basically hold down R1 and retain extremely close control, almost like he would dribbling normally. You don't need to wait to catch up with the ball to turn, you basically can turn all you want while running with this card.

For example, try this. Get a player with speed merchant and try run around the ball while holding down R1 in a circle with the ball. The player will be able to run around in a very small circle within a few seconds. Now try the same with a player without speed merchant. He will need to run in a circle bigger than the center circle, and it will take him around 20 seconds. You can see how dramatic a change this is.

A lot of people complained about how hard it was to take the ball around players in pes 2011 compared to 2010. Well, that may be true.. but once a player is given this card.. it becomes as easy as it was in 2010.
It makes the players so, so, so much more effective... I've given ronaldo 40 DA and this card/ability and had absolutely no troubles beating players... it's that good.

IMO the change is so drastic that it really should be reserved to a handful of players at the max. Players who are agile and can turn fast don't necessarily deserve this card.It also creates a much closer control at speeds, something that very, very few players can do. What it does is emulate a dribbling style that is actually close to Messi's and Robbens, that slalom style. Playing with them, even with their high DS/DA/AGI/ACC their style isn't really emulated well. You can't really constantly run with the ball with them due to the cut down time needed before you can turn, but with this card you can play just like them.

IMO the only people who truly deserve this card are robben and messi. The card makes dribbling waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy too good.
I can't stress enough how effective this makes players, the level of close control you gain at speeds from this card is almost too good. And the vast majority of players who are very agile and can turn very fast... DO NOT DESERVE this card... they may turn fast, but they don't dribble with the same sort of close control, with this card they would gain close control that they never demonstrate in real life.


The main aspects of this card are, extreme close control at speeds, and turning with extreme ease at speeds. players need to be capable of both in reality to get this card in game... as such it should be reserved for the dribbling elite.


I can see iniesta also getting this card.. but I can't think of many else who deserve it. Good initiative starting this thread, its very important to decide who gets this card.. its probably the most significant card/abilityy in pes history.

Last edited by jurgens on 2010 Nov 11, 10:40, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby Luisao82 » 2010 Nov 11, 07:27

jurgens wrote:I've given ronaldo 40 DA and this card and had absolutely no troubles beating players...


Since you are talking about close control/ability to turn in dribble running, shouldn't you have set DS to 40 instead of DA?

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby jurgens » 2010 Nov 11, 08:15

????????

why would I do that? I was testing to see how much CONTROL (DA) they gain while using this card. Giving him lower DS would just make him dribble slower...
They don't necessarily gain extra DA/agi points when assigned this card(though it feels like it), but the fluidity of dribbling is increased so much that you can literally knock 50 points of DA and they still move very well if they have the card. It's like... this card makes them dribble as though they were from a different game.

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby adieet » 2010 Nov 11, 09:23

40 ? :shock: what a card.... :? overpower ?

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby Luisao82 » 2010 Nov 11, 09:37

jurgens wrote:Giving him lower DS would just make him dribble slower..


And wouldn't it take away the fluidity of his turns as well? I'm just asking coz I often feel that once you dribble while pressing R1, it's the DS mechanism that comes into play rather than the DA.

Last edited by Luisao82 on 2010 Nov 11, 10:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby jurgens » 2010 Nov 11, 09:55

No it would just slow down his dribbling. Turning is related to agility and DA. Though this card is so weird.. While holding R1 even with -40 agility ronaldo moves so fluid.... Of course when its not held down he moves
like an oaf but while r1 is down its so free flowing.

adieet wrote:40 ? :shock: what a card.... :? overpower ?


yeah, try it.. while r1 is down it just feels like theres so much accuracy. Overpowered is a gaming term to describe something thats simply too good, similar to the term broken.

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby Luisao82 » 2010 Nov 11, 10:24

Yeah, you right jurgens... and it's kinda logic actually.

As for that Card, I'll be paying special attention to it from now on.

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby adieet » 2010 Nov 11, 10:55

jurgens wrote:yeah, try it.. while r1 is down it just feels like theres so much accuracy. Overpowered is a gaming term to describe something thats simply too good, similar to the term broken.


I know, just asking if this card is overpowered ;). Yeah :|

Back to topic, wonder how messi will do with his stats :? . Slippery eel. :o

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby Helios » 2010 Nov 11, 11:18

The fact that it was only given to a handful amount of players (by default) indicates nothing by itself.

The flip flap special ability was only given to a very small number of players in previous versions, yet Konami missed dozens of players who do the trick as often (if not more) as the ones who had it already.


Though this card is so weird.. While holding R1 even with -40 agility ronaldo moves so fluid.... Of course when its not held down he moves

A small suggestion : Try decreasing his technique and DA by the same amount (not just the agility) and tell us how does it feel ? ;)

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby Uzair » 2010 Nov 11, 16:40

i agree that the card is overpowered. that's why this topic was made. what one of the things the card does is increase the numbers of turns a player can do within a certain time as said by jurgens. so i can see myself in agreeing that we should only give it to players that can maintain high levels of control whilst travelling at speed and making quick turns. but surely there's gotta be more than Messi, Robben and Iniesta??

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby Gugu » 2010 Nov 11, 16:50

SWP, Ronaldo, Krasic, and Donovan I'd add.

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby Luisao82 » 2010 Nov 11, 17:04

Hulk (FC Porto) has showed consistent signs that he deserves that card as well. Speedy and Explosive players like him aren't normally very good at retaining good ball control, but he does it with some mastery. Plus he has the capability to turn like few players. Sometimes it gives the impression that he can dribble run and shoot at the same time. Some quick and skillful footwork he has got.

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby Oswaldo » 2010 Nov 11, 17:26

What about Kun Agüero?

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby Uzair » 2010 Nov 11, 17:34

don't really agree with SWP. but i do think Pato could be a candidate.

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby adieet » 2010 Nov 11, 18:00

Ronaldinho ? He's not fast, what about player like him ?

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Re: The Speed Merchants (!)

Postby Uzair » 2010 Nov 11, 21:23

definitely in his prime, but i'm less convinced about him nowadays. doesn't really move with the ball a great deal does he for him to need it?

i think ben arfa is a real candidate tho, along with robinho, arshavin and ronaldo. aguero is also a possibility. i'm a bit thrown with hulk tbh

EDIT: ok these are the only players that are definites in my eyes, atm; Messi, Robben, Iniesta, Ronaldo, Robinho, Ribery, Ben Arfa, Arshavin, Alexis Sanchez. the reason is that these players are all quick & agile dribblers. most importantly however, they all have high figures for DA and all of them, more often than not, can maintain good levels of ball control when dribbling at pace. so the card shouldn't make them act any differently to how you'd expect them to.

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