Dragan Stojković | 1985-1990

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Dragan Stojković | 1985-1990

Postby PES Stats Database » 2009 Jan 24, 23:02

Nickname: Piksi ("Pixie")

Club: Red Star Belgrade



Growth type: Early/Lasting

VIDEOS:

Spoiler: show




ADDITIONAL LINKS:

http://www.reprezentacija.rs/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1539&Itemid=12

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragan_Stojkovic

http://www.crvenazvezdafk.com/srecan-rodjendan-piksi-1626-s2-c19-video.htm (watch excellent video on the bottom of the page)

Last edited by Korinov on 2014 Jul 22, 13:45, edited 6 times in total.
Reason: deleted info copied straight from wikipedia
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Re: Dragan STOJKOVIĆ "Piksi" | 1985-1990

Postby Korinov » 2014 Jul 21, 22:53

Watched that video. I don't think you really need more than the current 85 DS to replicate him ingame. His close control, agility, acceleration and classy feints look way more impressive than his speed on the ball.

Edit: watched some of the other videos in the previous page... thanks for posting all those, I only knew this guy by name before. Can see that red LPA, I would have no issues with 95. I'm not that sold on SPA though... from the videos at least, he doesn't look half as incisive and dangerous with his short passing as with his long one. I actually think there should be a significative gap between his short and long passing, something like 91 SPA (at best) and 95 LPA. I'm also not sure he really needs yellow SPS, in those videos there are actual examples of yellow SPS but not from him, he doesn't really look more than mid greens to be honest.

I'd also make his physical values more extreme. His dribbling is based on tricking opponents, evading them and getting past them via speed. He evades contact all of the time. I would go really low with his BB, in the low 70s range (70, 71, something like that). On the other hand, he does look a bit faster than 80 TS/83 Acc, as I see at least 82 TS and something like 85/86 Acc.

Regarding the cards, Classic Nº 10 needs to go, he doesn't look like a Classic Nº 10 at all :? and I'd consider the *Side speciall skill.

Edit2: was he really such a good shooter? Just asking out of curiosity.
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Re: Dragan STOJKOVIĆ "Piksi" | 1985-1990

Postby RasniPantela » 2014 Jul 22, 09:47

Agree with passing, but i wouldnt lower it 3 points, maybe 2. Because when i compare him to other yugoslavian players (all time best) , i see his passing above all others, and giving him 92 SPA would still make him best short passer of all former yugoslavian players, and i am sure he is.

Agree about SPS, i suggest 77.

For his BB, i am sure that he was a lot stronger in Red Star , than in later periods in his career. Maybe that value would be good for his time in 1990-1994 , but i agree with downgrade, something around 74-75. He had lot of injuries in period 1990-1994, at some times ,he played with dislocated knee, he just stopped and fixed it by himself. And continued playing.Crazy.

Agree with higher speed and acc, this old value is mainly because people here in Serbia think of him like Classic no 10, with not much speed but great passing and vision.

About shooting, he scored 65 goals on 158 official matches for Red Star, and many of them were fucking amazing. His goals are unforgettable, and they are still talked among the fans here in Serbia, he was real legend.

For me, he is best player Yugoslavia ever had, many of them say it was Dzajic, but Dzajic job was to only get past player and cross, because he was like classic winger, but i do not like that style of play. Piksi was magican, his vision of the ball, his shooting, passing and dribbling makes him one of the most complete players yugoslavia ever had, and i am sure that in a long time, we wont see player like this to be born in ex-yu countries.

So, the updates i think that should be made:

SPA: 93----92
LPA: 94----95
SPS: 80----77
BB: 78-----74
TS:80---83
ACC:83:86


I do not want to disrespect anyone work, but i think there are lot of yugoslavian players with wrong values in some stats, and i think they should be updated. Even one user said to me that he created some players based on his feeling, not real stats. I am looking for information and watching videos of many our legendary players as much as i can and i will post suggestions in their threads when i have more free time.
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Re: Dragan STOJKOVIĆ "Piksi" | 1985-1990

Postby Korinov » 2014 Jul 22, 10:43

This is his classic set from PES 2011.

Spoiler: show
Name: STJANORIC

Club: ?
Number: ?
Position: AMF*, SS
Nationality: Serbian _srb
Age: 29 (xx-yy-1985)

Foot: R
Side: B

Length: 175
Weight: 73

Attack: 84
Defence: 52
Balance: 73
Stamina: 78
Top Speed: 80
Acceleration: 82
Response: 81
Agility: 88
Dribble Accuracy: 94
Dribble Speed: 82
Short Pass Accuracy: 93
Short Pass Speed: 82
Long Pass Accuracy: 94
Long Pass Speed: 80
Shot Accuracy: 87
Shot Power: 82
Shot Technique: 84
Free Kick Accuracy: 90
Curling: 88
Header: 70
Jump: 65
Technique: 96
Aggression: 80
Mentality: 78
Keeper Skills: 50
Team Work: 85

Injury Tolerance: B
Condition/Fitness: 5
Weak Foot Accuracy: 6
Weak Foot Frequency: 5

S21 - Step On Skills
S20 - Flicking Skills
S02 - Passer
S03 - 1-on-1 Finish
S04 - PK Taker
S05 - 1-touch Play
S06 - Outside curve
S15 - Shoulder Feint Skills
S16 - Roulette Skills
P01 - Classic NO.10
P03 - Trickster


It's the set our current one is based on. He's 29 years old, so this probably represents him while in Japan (it's actually logical Konami would make a classic set from his Japan year). It looks mostly fitting, including a physical decline of sorts after his injuries in the early 90s.

Now, before I type anything else, there's something very important I'd like to adress, and you've said it yourself.

I do not want to disrespect anyone work, but i think there are lot of yugoslavian players with wrong values in some stats, and i think they should be updated. Even one user said to me that he created some players based on his feeling, not real stats. I am looking for information and watching videos of many our legendary players as much as i can and i will post suggestions in their threads when i have more free time.


Creating sets based on feelings, articles and "my grandpa says" was the bane of this Classic Section for a long, long time. It got it filled with loads and loads of useless sets which didn't represent the real players at all. We're still a long way from fixing the whole mess. And if we want to sort it out, we need to rely on footage, that is, videos. So...

Because when i compare him to other yugoslavian players (all time best) , i see his passing above all others, and giving him 92 SPA would still make him best short passer of all former yugoslavian players, and i am sure he is.

For his BB, i am sure that he was a lot stronger in Red Star , than in later periods in his career.

About shooting, he scored 65 goals on 158 official matches for Red Star, and many of them were fucking amazing. His goals are unforgettable, and they are still talked among the fans here in Serbia, he was real legend.


We actually need to move away from wild guesses and "reputation" issues. The old "he's a legend so he must have very high stats", things like that. Look at the videos. Compilations tend to offer the best from footballers. If they had certain qualities and skills, they will be there, and you'll see them.

I watch Stojkovic in the video compilations and I see no body strenght at all. Even if he had it, he made no use of it. The key of his game was evading rival players with grace, technique and speed. So Body Balance plays no part on his game, it's irrelevant, and his stats should reflect that. That's why I'd put him in the low 70s range. He doesn't need more.

Short passing: I don't really care much about comparisons with all time best yugoslavian players. Just look at his assist compilations. Do you see defence-splitting through passes? No. He's actually much more adventurous and dangerous with his long passing. Most of his short passing assists come from (very) short passes inside of the box, delivered with great precision yeah, but you don't need crazy high values to produce such a thing ingame (virtually any player can produce tons of assists in PES if he manages to put himself on a good passing position inside the box, doesn't matter what kind of passing values he has). Just look at Stojkovic's short passing in the videos... do we really need 92 SPA to replicate that ingame? I'd say no. I'd say a high yellow value could probably be enough, and would actually show how much better he was with his long passing than with his short. If you want to draw comparisons with well documented players, you can take Modric as an example. Look at Modric's short passing and compare it to Stojkovic's. Does Stojkovic look that better in your eyes?

90 SPA is really the highest I'd go for him really.

Shooting: 85 SA, 82 SP and 92 ST is one hell of a shooting combo. A goal tally alone hardly justifies it. First, I'd say quite a bunch of those goals must have come from free kicks and penalties. There are some goal compilations in youtube, easy to find. The first thing that strikes me is his one-on-one proficiency, which totally justifies the one-on-one finish card/star. The second, his placement, really good, probably worthy of that 87 SA Konami gave him. SP 82 also seems well rated, he could put some pretty decent power on his shots. But ST 92, I see it nowhere. No volleys, no acrobatic shots, no flawless first-touch shots from difficult angles, nothing of the sort. Nowhere near orange ST as I see it. Konami's 84 value looks even generous, I don't think you really need more than 80 ST to replicate his shooting ingame, at least from what I'm seeing from the youtube videos.

Edit: also from his compilations, FKA looks better to me than Curling. There was a really nice swerve on his shots, specially free kicks, but I'd rate his accuracy over it. Konami's default values actually look ok, probably with FKA a bit higher.
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Re: Dragan STOJKOVIĆ "Piksi" | 1985-1990

Postby RasniPantela » 2014 Jul 22, 12:53

You convinced me. I tested him in the game with 90 SPA and he is quite dangerous, so i see no problem having him on that value.

About ST, look at this video, 0:35 , 0:46 , 1:00 (i know that goal is empty, but it is very hard to perform shot like that), there are also two goals from corner kick in this video, but it is not related to ST.



This video at 4:00 , 4:51, 5:08.



44 years and he still got it :D




I do not know how much are some of these goals related to ST, because it is the one of the hardest values in pes for me to judge, and sorry if i am wrong with those.

I think it is no need to have him so high on ST like you said, i think it needs to be downgraded much, but little higher than you suggested. At least point or two, i know that there is no much difference, but i do not think he will be able to perform shots like those with ST at 80.
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Re: Dragan STOJKOVIĆ "Piksi" | 1985-1990

Postby Korinov » 2014 Jul 22, 13:16

Ah, thanks for those. Yeah, I can see now where Konami's ST comes from. Gonna update him soon.
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Re: Dragan Stojković | 1985-1990

Postby Messias_24 » 2014 Jul 23, 03:07

his DA needs to be 97 or even 98,i mean this guy close control is unvelievable,he is on par with prosinecki,zidane or iniesta,and if savicevic has 98 da then stojkovic should have it too,they are on the same level imo.and isnt his DS a litle underrated?he seemed to be fast on the ball,i mean baggio has 90 ds and imo stojkovic was faster so...
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Re: Dragan Stojković | 1985-1990

Postby RasniPantela » 2014 Jul 23, 11:16

I dont think Mentality needs to be lowered that much. He was always involved in game,he was not lazy type of midfielder. I know 78 is fairly good value, but he was something over average for that time. I would not go under 82 for him.
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Re: Dragan Stojković | 1985-1990

Postby Korinov » 2014 Jul 31, 17:16

Mentality doesn't have an effect over lazyness. It's mostly a luxury stat that, when on a high value, allows players to keep performing at a decent level even when their stamina bar is depleted. So high Ment values should be reserved for players truly able to put their teams over their shoulders and carry them on in difficult/adverse situations... leaders, that is.

Konami gave Stojkovic 78 Ment and I believe it's enough.
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Re: Dragan Stojković | 1985-1990

Postby RasniPantela » 2014 Dec 07, 10:07

Mentanilty seriously needs to be given previous value of 84.He was leader of our NT for years,he fighted to the last minute of game.Konami mainly gave him values at time when he was at japan,where he played with dislocated knee and some other injuries.But in the period 1985-1990 he was real leader of NT and Red Star.I remeber when i watched the footage from Yugoslavia vs Spain,he had that fighter spirit,he pushed whole team forward.When it was 1-1,every one on the pitch was happy about the result and just waited for penalties,he was the only one that acutaly cared for game and wanted to do something.
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Re: Dragan Stojković | 1985-1990

Postby VUKDS » 2015 Sep 21, 04:19

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Re: Dragan Stojković | 1985-1990

Postby RasniPantela » 2015 Sep 21, 17:29

Simply magnificent.
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Re: Dragan Stojković | 1985-1990

Postby dwid » 2017 Aug 31, 14:31

I read previous discussion and watched some videos. Was he that weak?
"Technique is not being able to juggle a ball 1000 times. Anyone can do that by practicing. Then you can work in the circus. Technique is passing the ball with one touch, with the right speed, at the right foot of your team mate."

Hendrik Johannes Cruijff.
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Re: Dragan Stojković | 1985-1990

Postby RasniPantela » 2017 Aug 31, 18:23

No he was not. He was real fighter and rarely fell down. Something like Messi. I cant understand the value Korinov gave him. It is simply stupid.
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Re: Dragan Stojković | 1985-1990

Postby dwid » 2017 Sep 01, 02:03

Yeah... considering videos he should have 75 or something.
"Technique is not being able to juggle a ball 1000 times. Anyone can do that by practicing. Then you can work in the circus. Technique is passing the ball with one touch, with the right speed, at the right foot of your team mate."

Hendrik Johannes Cruijff.
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Re: Dragan Stojković | 1985-1990

Postby dwid » 2017 Sep 09, 03:09

Body Balance should be better than 71. He's similar to Savicevic, who has BB 80.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xQKQLukELI => 1:23; 1:54.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSc32oOeiKk => 0:40; 1:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFsFAjSQ5Rg => 2:50; 6:25
"Technique is not being able to juggle a ball 1000 times. Anyone can do that by practicing. Then you can work in the circus. Technique is passing the ball with one touch, with the right speed, at the right foot of your team mate."

Hendrik Johannes Cruijff.
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Re: Dragan Stojković | 1985-1990

Postby Rex » 2017 Nov 14, 23:09

The best Serbian player of all time, by a huge margine

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